[choerenz]

I don't have a "pregs"; where do I buy that? 😂

Otherwise, we are definitely of like mind though I discount the Aprila option because the nearest dealer is 2.5 hours away one-way. Conveniently, my BMW dealer is just 15 minutes away and he's also a KTM dealer with his showroom a good healthy 50/50 split between the two. Of course, thanks to recent events, I will also consider KTM's corporate health as part of my choice. I know BMW will be around to honor their warranty and provide parts; unfortunately, I can't say that for KTM at this point.

I've thought of positioning the 310 out west. It's a possibility in part because I have a friend with space in Colorado. I suppose it will depend on how much I prefer the 450 over the 310.

for me its actually the opposite - BMW dealer is 1.5 hours away, Aprilla dealer is 5 minutes away. Its crazy that BMW doesn't do a better job of serving the NY metropolitan area! Also, agree on the KTM company issues.

 

[JerryG]

Its crazy that BMW doesn't do a better job of serving the NY metropolitan area!

Since BMWNA is in NJ, maybe it's that NY vs NJ thing?

 

[2024]

Jerry I suspect (like me) you enjoy the build almost as much as the riding. My 310 is now also set up perfectly for me. Bars, tall seat, suspension, pregs, etc. But I really wish it had 10 more HP. I also don't ride freeways much but the extra 10 would make those stretches perfect. In the end, my dream bike weighs under 400 lbs and has between 42-55 HP. My first bike was a CB500X (48 HP) and I know that bike was perfect for me except for the extra weight. For me it will be difficult to choose from the new bikes coming out. A lot will depend on what the new BMW actually comes with. But for me, my list will need to include: under 400 lbs, 44+ HP, tubeless tires w. spoked wheels, and excellent suspension. As a bonus cruise control. I think the BMW, KTM390, and the Aprilla will all be very appealing to me but if the Aprilla is set up similarly to the 660, I think that one will win out for me. Then the question is what to do with the 310? One thought I had was to rent a storage locker out west and leave it there. Then fly out 2X a year to ride.

I find it interesting you guys "like the build" because I don't.

I scour used ads for the model I'm looking for with the most mods that I want, already done. A G310GS with standard suspension would have been an unthinkable purchase. As would have been the F series GS bikes I also considered.

I list manage any deficiencies & do the last upgrades after purchase, then never change the bike again.

My 73 Bonnie hasn't been altered since 2011 (bought in 2007). My K1200GT has never needed any upgrade that it didn't come with & the G310GS only needed additional items specifically for off road motocamping.

Motorcycling is interesting the way folks approach it. For me it's all about the ride & nothing else. Not the gear, not the social aspect (all my long distance touring is done solo) not even which bike I'm riding because I love them all as old friends.
I'm never interested in a different bike unless it could do something I want, that the ones I have already can't. Very rare.

However enjoy the Aprilia 457, BMW 450 &/or anything else that catches your eye & ride their wheels off.
Cheers 2024

 

[choerenz]

Since BMWNA is in NJ, maybe it's that NY vs NJ thing?

yes there is one slightly closer in NJ but the ride is not fun. The one in CT is

I find it interesting you guys "like the build" because I don't.

I scour used ads for the model I'm looking for with the most mods that I want, already done. A G310GS with standard suspension would have been an unthinkable purchase. As would have been the F series GS bikes I also considered.

I list manage any deficiencies & do the last upgrades after purchase, then never change the bike again.

My 73 Bonnie hasn't been altered since 2011 (bought in 2007). My K1200GT has never needed any upgrade that it didn't come with & the G310GS only needed additional items specifically for off road motocamping.

Motorcycling is interesting the way folks approach it. For me it's all about the ride & nothing else. Not the gear, not the social aspect (all my long distance touring is done solo) not even which bike I'm riding because I love them all as old friends.
I'm never interested in a different bike unless it could do something I want, that the ones I have already can't. Very rare.

However enjoy the Aprilia 457, BMW 450 &/or anything else that catches your eye & ride their wheels off.
Cheers 2024

I also ride solo a lot. So I understand the allure of that. For me its the full experience. I enjoy planning a lot - this applies to mods I want to make on the bike as well as my routes for the trip. Once I'm in motion its all about the ride. Also, for me the G310 build was a first. I actually purchased it as a project bike with the intention of customizing it and making it unique to me in some ways. I did buy it with the Rally Raid suspension and wheels so to your point finding one with a solid foundation to build on was part of my plan.

 

[JerryG]

The "build" is just part of the pre- and post-ride process for me. To the extent that I have the time and skill to do it myself, I enjoy it. Otherwise, I'll pay someone by buying something pre-built (used or new) or by having my dealer do the work. Every time I do a ride, especially major rides, there's usually something I want or need to do before the next ride and the cycle repeats in a process that converges eventually on a bike that is good-enough that I shift my focus to the next bike. I've maintained a "Next Bike" folder since I started riding forty-four years ago.

I admit I've done more to my G310GS than I've done to any other bike I've ever owned. I attribute that in part to my enthusiasm for getting back off-road after 35 years and in part because of what the G310GS needed to be ready for serious off-road fun. If there had been a ready-for-serious-fun GS that weighed less than 400 lbs, I would have started there and done less. My hope is that either the F450GS or the KTM 390 Adventure R will be good enough out the door that it needs few or no changes.

 

[choerenz]

The "build" is just part of the pre- and post-ride process for me. To the extent that I have the time and skill to do it myself, I enjoy it. Otherwise, I'll pay someone by buying something pre-built (used or new) or by having my dealer do the work. Every time I do a ride, especially major rides, there's usually something I want or need to do before the next ride and the cycle repeats in a process that converges eventually on a bike that is good-enough that I shift my focus to the next bike. I've maintained a "Next Bike" folder since I started riding forty-four years ago.

I admit I've done more to my G310GS than I've done to any other bike I've ever owned. I attribute that in part to my enthusiasm for getting back off-road after 35 years and in part because of what the G310GS needed to be ready for serious off-road fun. If there had been a ready-for-serious-fun GS that weighed less than 400 lbs, I would have started there and done less. My hope is that either the F450GS or the KTM 390 Adventure R will be good enough out the door that it needs few or no changes.

I suspect they will both be pretty good "out of the box". Based on riding a 790 and 890 Adv R I'd say the KTM will be closer to "good to go" because the suspension will be excellent (assuming they don't cheap out on the 390). Wheel sizes should also be spot on. But there is that KTM reliability. Any bike will need a better bash plate & hand guards. I will add heated grips (most OEM are crap - even on my Tiger 900 Rally Pro they were crap) and additional lighting (Denali are my go to). The lights I consider table stakes as I need to be seen. They make a massive difference.

 

[JerryG]

Sounds like a Next Bike folder to me. 😉

 

[2024]

No next bike folder for me. Hopefully never!
I live vicariously by watching my boys drool over "next bikes".

My beloved Bonnie is the only bike I'll ever ride in Costa Rica.
The K1200GT should last as long as I'm capable of long distance touring in North America & if not I'd simply get another the same model.
The G310GS is as much off road bike as I'll ever need.

I plan to do a lot of dirt road/trail riding in AZ & UT. I'll never need a faster one.
Lighter would have been nice, but I could always borrow my son's 300lb WR250R if a truly challenging route was envisaged, however it's unlikely.

Like JerryG mentioned my 2024 return to off road riding (since 1988) was a long interlude & I've found it surprisingly enjoyable. I hope that form of adventuring on a low powered bike is the one I can take into my dotage.

 

[Delsol69]

for me its actually the opposite - BMW dealer is 1.5 hours away, Aprilla dealer is 5 minutes away. Its crazy that BMW doesn't do a better job of serving the NY metropolitan area! Also, agree on the KTM company issues.

Seems a little weird bit because NY is such a big place.
Where a live there are 2 BMW dealers in a one hour ride and 2 BMW dealers with in 20 minutes ride and one of them is in Germany just across the border .

 

[JerryG]

It used to be that there were numerous small BMW motorcycle dealers in the US, but BMW adopted a policy that forced those dealers to upgrade their stores to provide the same high end "BMW Experience" as BMW car dealerships. For many of them, it simply wasn't economical to do so. Their customer base wasn't big enough to support it, so they closed or switched to more popular less fussy motorcycle brands. The result is a sparse US BMW motorcycle dealer network. All three times my G310GS has stranded me, I've been more than 100 miles away from the nearest dealer and, as a corollary to that sparsity, those dealers have been too busy to expedite fixing my bike so I could quickly get back on the road. During the motorcycle season, the wait to get a BMW motorcycle serviced or fixed is often measured in months; almost always at least weeks; and never days. Because of this, I usually get my bikes serviced during the off season whether they are due or not.

 

[choerenz]

It used to be that there were numerous small BMW motorcycle dealers in the US, but BMW adopted a policy that forced those dealers to upgrade their stores to provide the same high end "BMW Experience" as BMW car dealerships. For many of them, it simply wasn't economical to do so. Their customer base wasn't big enough to support it, so they closed or switched to more popular less fussy motorcycle brands. The result is a sparse US BMW motorcycle dealer network. All three times my G310GS has stranded me, I've been more than 100 miles away from the nearest dealer and, as a corollary to that sparsity, those dealers have been too busy to expedite fixing my bike so I could quickly get back on the road. During the motorcycle season, the wait to get a BMW motorcycle serviced or fixed is often measured in months; almost always at least weeks; and never days. Because of this, I usually get my bikes serviced during the off season whether they are due or not.

There was a major dealer in Manhattan but it closed a few years ago. There are three within 40-51 minutes by highway. I happen to go to the one furthest away since I can get there back roads (also in the winter they pick up and deliver - so my bike went in yesterday in fact for a service). It didn't stop me from buying a BMW (my second) but I have two Aprilla options that I know of, and one 5 miles away. Same for Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Honda (25 minutes away), KTM, and Triumph. So many options.

 

[JerryG]

New tidbit from a Dec 24, 2024, post on advrider.com from

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/bmw-g310gs-thread.1140150/page-568#post-51980651

He says...
"FYI - my dealer told me they heard from BMW NA last week that the new 450 is replacing the 310 in 2025. There will not be a 2025 310 model in the US.
Take it for what it's worth but I have no reason to doubt him."

 

[2024]

New tidbit from a Dec 24, 2024, post on advrider.com from

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/bmw-g310gs-thread.1140150/page-568#post-51980651

He says...
"FYI - my dealer told me they heard from BMW NA last week that the new 450 is replacing the 310 in 2025. There will not be a 2025 310 model in the US.
Take it for what it's worth but I have no reason to doubt him."

This was in many ways predictable. It has to be admitted a manufacturer's "customers" are its dealers, not "Joe Public".
I doubt the dealers ever wanted to sell the G310GS in the first place. Probably insufficient $ profit to motivate them.

The good news for us is that they were sold for 7 years. There will always be aftermarket parts available for those in use. BMW support will be available until 2035 & getting parts from overseas will always be an option, because it won't be discontinued there. I'm happy

 

[JerryG]

This was in many ways predictable. It has to be admitted a manufacturer's "customers" are its dealers, not "Joe Public".
I doubt the dealers ever wanted to sell the G310GS in the first place. Probably insufficient $ profit to motivate them.

The good news for us is that they were sold for 7 years. There will always be aftermarket parts available for those in use. BMW support will be available until 2035 & getting parts from overseas will always be an option, because it won't be discontinued there. I'm happy

I think differently about it:

I think the successful marketing of the G310GS in the US was proof that a less than 400 lbs GS would sell. If the G310GS hadn't sold, the F450GS would probably have died unannounced.

With the 310GS and 450GS weighing the same and no such thing as an A2 license in the US, it doesn't surprise one bit that BMW NA will replace the 310GS with the 450GS despite BMW Motorrad's announcement to the contrary...

"With the near-production-ready BMW Concept F 450 GS, BMW Motorrad is offering a glimpse of a BMW GS for the A2 license class and what a whole new model series between the BMW G 310 and F 800/900 could look like."

 

[2024]

I think differently about it:

I think the successful marketing of the G310GS in the US was proof that a less than 400 lbs GS would sell. If the G310GS hadn't sold, the F450GS would probably have died unannounced.

With the 310GS and 450GS weighing the same and no such thing as an A2 license in the US, it doesn't surprise one bit that BMW NA will replace the 310GS with the 450GS despite BMW Motorrad's announcement to the contrary...

"With the near-production-ready BMW Concept F 450 GS, BMW Motorrad is offering a glimpse of a BMW GS for the A2 license class and what a whole new model series between the BMW G 310 and F 800/900 could look like."

Agreed. The G310R can continue as the 450 is irrelevant in that case. Which is good from the point of continued parts supply for the G310GS.
I agree that it was demonstrated that a sub-400lb BMW could sell well. I just don't think the dealers enjoyed selling it.

 

[JerryG]

I'm sure that short sighted dealers didn't like the G310GS or R, but I'm also sure that dealers with a long range point view liked have something in that price segment.

I fully expect an F450R to appear about a year after the GS becomes available. Or maybe an SM (Super Moto) version; that would be an interesting side step from BMW's usual product progression.

 

[JerryG]

I've brought this discussion from the "Big bore for the gs" thread...

I don’t think the new BMW 450 will be that expensive, it will be made in India and it really has to compete with the CFMoto 450 and the Royal Enfield Himalayan 410. Both bikes are under $10K AUD and are selling really well in Australia and have great reputations. So if BMW wants to capture some of that market it would have to be selling in the $10-12K range. But I guess we will see.

They'll package and option F450GS the same way they packaged and optioned the off-road versions of R1300GS: 1 model with no options; 1 model with some options; 1 model with all the options. The no option model with be price competitive with similar sized bikes; the some option model with be another $1000 and the all option model will be another $2500. BMW NA will bring mostly the all option model to the US; they won't bring any of the no option models to the US; it will only be available by special order, if at all.

Interestingly, they were very careful in the press pictures and the videos to NOT show a clear shot of the left controls; that would reveal options. The best cockpit pic I could get was a screen shot from a video while the bike was bouncing around all over. The left controls have some buttons I recognize from my XR, but there are others I've never seen on any BMW. Very disappointingly, there is no cruise control; fingers cross that one of the option/packages has that; it makes long distances MUCH easier.

I haven't looked into the 450 at all. Is it for sure coming front India?

Everything I'm seeing is directly lifted from, or slight mods of, components of bikes made in Germany.
I haven't see anything in any pic or any video that suggests non-German production.

 

[kentforrest]

@JerryG with zero research at all and just top of the head guess, I was thinking cut a Loncin engine design in half, and build the bike in Germany.

 

[JerryG]

@JerryG with zero research at all and just top of the head guess, I was thinking cut a Loncin engine design in half, and build the bike in Germany.

Good point. I haven't seen the engine itself anywhere as a component. I admit I have no particular expertise that applies here, but it's fun to speculate.

At the 1:00 mark, the video below says "The 2025 BMW F 450 GS is powered by a completely new twin-cylinder engine, one that uses an ignition that BMW says has never been used before, which should provide impressive revs. The power output is slightly above the A2 requirement of 48 horsepower - on a separate note, weight is maintained thanks to the use of lightweight materials, including magnesium."

It might be hype, but to me this sounds advanced like advancements in the R1300GS' new engine, that makes it sound like something BMW itself would do rather than something they would have a someone else do. After all, BMW builds twin engines for the 800/900 series, so it wouldn't be a leap to build a smaller one. But it could be a BMW design built for BMW by someone, but that's harder to do when you're building something new and/or different and this seems to be a bit of both. Also harder to keep it under wraps as you do it.

I asked Google's Gemini AI...

 

[kentforrest]

The 800/900 engines are the ones built in the Loncin (China) facility. The engines are then shipped to Germany where the motorcycles are built around the engines.