[WarioGS]

Hi all!

Just wanted to enter the forum and add my experience.

Bought a used GS 310 ADVENTURE - just over 2000 miles from new, great tidy condition. Bike was delivered to me from the BMW dealership. UK based.

It arrived and I was excited. Delivery driver left and I went to start it. Nothing. Wouldn't start! Called the dealership (this was supposed to be fully serviced as was sold by the dealer. They said they will return to collect it and take it back to the dealership. I said no I will charge it and persevere! Probably a flat battery. Anyway I managed to get it started after quite a few attempts with no charge.

Got around the first bend into changing up to second. Wouldn't shift. Literally wouldn't shift from first to second gear. Weird. Thought the gearbox has a fault.

Called BMW the second time in the same day. They asked me to persevere for a few days and I said fine. Oddly the battery issue and the shifting rectified itself. Never had anything like this and I have been riding many many years. Tonnes of bikes.

Had the bike for a few months and had intermittent starting issues but I charged the battery on a good trickle charger and it seemed okay. Albeit had these occasional start issues (summer months). Finally after half a year - winter (keeping it trickle charged and using every other day including winter) had to get roadside assistance. It broke down on me. Got from house to destination with no issue but wouldn't start after a good run. Weird.

Roadside tech tested and said the battery is faulty. Needs replacing. He didn't take the bike (BMW told me they would take it if required). He got it started and I had to ride home.

So I reported this to them and also this weird issue with the shifting which would pop up once/twice a month with the shift not letting me change gear.

They have had the bike now for 19/20 days and still no ETA to return it. They wouldn't ship me a battery to change myself and wanted to try and charge me £300 for the battery (£160 approx.) and £70 each way to collect/return (even though they had been to the bike once with the correct van they could have taken it away. I caused a major fuss and said no way are you charging me for this and they did collect it and offer to do the work for 'free' which is hilarious as its still in the warranty they sold with it as I reminded them. Not impressed by this response whatsoever.

So now they tell me the cush drive rubbers are shot. I googled this and found others have had this issue. My other issues they found include something on the wiring loom needed replacing, cush drive rubbers, the chain is going rusty amazingly fast, like nothing I have ever seen - even when lubed up well (piss poor quality parts basically!). They won't swap the battery which I have read loads about being rubbish (OEM) for anything better. I know think I know why the first/one previous owner traded it in.

My experience seems to be that the parts are evidently very cheap and poor quality. Remember it does have a BMW badge on it and as I said to them this is far from BMW reliability. If I have parts failing like this at less than 3000 miles it doesn't lead me to think others will last that long. Not confidence inspiring at all.

My main 'concern' is they are explaining the cush drive rubbers would lock the gears from being able to shift completely if faulty. I think that sounds really 'weird' and that's my main question to everyone. I have had so many bikes and in over 250,000miles of riding I have done loads of my own mech work and NEVER had cush drive rubbers even need replacing let alone even heard of having to do it at such low mileage. Also does it sound right what they are telling me that the weird gear box issue with it completely not shifting from 1st to 2nd - like the engine is seized (it's not but that's the same kind of feeling - total locking of the gear) down to these rubbers. Sounds like BS to me. If the rubbers have failed surely the issue wouldn;t come and go as it has. Feels like a gearbox issue to me. Don't see how these 'dampeners' will literally lock the shifter completely once/twice a month and then free the gears up as normal then do it again later. casual riding. This is not off-roading either. Feel like they are fobbing me off.

Thanks all - great forum

 

[Cyrille]

Concerning your gear box issue: start by checking the chain's tension (40-50 mm - bike with no weight applied, supported on its side stand). Then check both the clutch lever freeplay (1-2 mm, on the manual controls, handlebars in straight-ahead position, with cold engine) and the condition of the clutch cable (replace it if necessary).

 

[G0MYW]

welcome to the forum and the "wonderful world" of bmw dealers .!!!

 

[WarioGS]

Concerning your gear box issue: start by checking the chain's tension (40-50 mm - bike with no weight applied, supported on its side stand). Then check both the clutch lever freeplay (1-2 mm, on the manual controls, handlebars in straight-ahead position, with cold engine) and the condition of the clutch cable (replace it if necessary).

Thanks for the reply!
All above seems fine. Tension I’ve checked and it’s correct. Clutch cable is in good order - no issues or extra play in it. It’s engaging correctly and clutch is smooth.

good points worth checking though! Thank you for that!

 

[WarioGS]

welcome to the forum and the "wonderful world" of bmw dealers .!!!

Haha thanks Sir. So far they have been pretty good except up to the point they were trying to bill me (under warranty!) and have had the bike for 3 weeks now for supposedly changing a battery, an electrical ‘fault’ (no info on that to speak of yet) and some Cush drive rubbers.
Spoke yesterday and they said it’s in ‘stage 1’ of diagnostics. Like I am supposed to know how many stages they have or what this translates to.
Basically it’s not fixed and no ETA.

They told me I was ‘lucky’ it was getting looked at so fast as they have a lead time until April.

I said how am I lucky 🍀 that you delivered a ‘fully serviced prior to sold’ 2 year old bike with 2k miles to me, as a ‘non-runner’ with multiple issues (undiagnosed), including perhaps a bad gearbox, that’s now been in the workshop for 3 weeks?

The only thing that symbolises to me is a lack of decent workshop management (if you have lead times like that and clients with bikes off the road for more than a reasonable amount of time for works to be carried out, hire more mechs/workshops) 😂

Saga continues.
I’m definitely not convinced the Cush drive rubbers will cause a gearbox to literally stop me shifting through gears completely. Complete lock ups.

can’t find a thing about it with substance online and I’ve spoken to a couple of bike mechs I know that said they don’t think so. Nope.

Figured it smart to come onboard the forum and see and found many Cush drive issues - very poor quality part installed. I’ve never in 20+ years and more than 50 bikes owned and many rented, ever had any Cush drive rubbers need replacing. Not once.

failing sub 2.5k miles and finding others with them failing sub 500miles! Is disconcerting indeed.

I’ve seen leads on this to say it happens due to wheel bearing issues leading to misalignment and then they wear fast from that. I checked the wheel though and it was straight.

Seems BMWs are great bikes - to learn about mechanics 😂

To be fair I’ve been happy with the ride/bike. It’s a great little machine. The parts though are clearly cheap and I see where they are saving money.

do you know the same bike off the forecourt in India is literally around $3000 brand new (approx).

Same with the KTM 390. A bit more but half the price of western market.

I saw the 2023 - KTM 790 adventure is being made by CFMOTO and they scrapped the 490 altogether.

I don’t mind buying ‘cheaper’ bikes and getting cheaper components. But sub standard is another animal.

will keep updated.

If anyone has thought on the gearbox or experience with this issue would be happy to hear experience.
Thanks all

 

[Lozhinge]

I'm no kind of expert at all but your gear change issue sounds a little like a problem I had on my Ducati a few years ago.

I found myself locked in 3rd gear whilst on a ride with no ability to change up or down. The lever wouldn't move. Careful judgment during the ride home saw me arrive safely back at base (only broke one red traffic light).

The dealer diagnosed, correctly, a broken gear selector fork spring.

I've no idea whether that is your 310's issue but it's a thought.

 

[WarioGS]

I'm no kind of expert at all but your gear change issue sounds a little like a problem I had on my Ducati a few years ago.

I found myself locked in 3rd gear whilst on a ride with no ability to change up or down. The lever wouldn't move. Careful judgment during the ride home saw me arrive safely back at base (only broke one red traffic light).

The dealer diagnosed, correctly, a broken gear selector fork spring.

I've no idea whether that is your 310's issue but it's a thought.

That’s really helpful to note. Thanks for the post!
What’s weird is it is intermittent. Comes and goes.

I’ve done more digging on the ‘Cush drive rubbers’ and people I’m talking to are saying the mech is talking nonsense.
Also if Cush drive rubbers are failing with such low usage it’s cause and effect. They are failing/perishing for a reason.

most likely bearings issues. Bearing clearance in the machines hubs likely being too tight. Basically tolerances are off on the machining. Can lead to a bad run of hubs. Cure is then to have the hub machine correctly to fit the bearing size.

not spoke to the mech about this yet. He was happy to change the Cush drive rubbers and send it back and now I can go back to them and ask ‘why are the rubbers failing?’. Don’t put a plaster on a water leak.

Sounds like there is more to all this.Ahh miss my Yammys, Hondas now haha.

A month with no bike now. Main commute also. Not good BMW. Got me chewy because the mech got snappy at me about the parts and reliability. I said go read the forums. You can’t order cheap Chinese manufactured parts with a 600% mark up or more and resell them (or re-fit them) and expect 600% + performance/reliability.

If I had to keep the bike I’d shortlist all the major issues people are having from OEM parts and just redo everything in one hit.

Mon a positive note though when it’s running it really is a fun little bike to ride. Handles nicely. Def has some quality control issues that BMW are trained to fully deny exist!

 

[ARBOLMANO]

Sorry to hear of issues. Bikes that lack Cush drives (many dirt bikes lack) actually do suffer from transmission/shifting/chain issues when used on non compliant tarmac. Mostly shifting as the trans is unable to unlock for that brief second to allow going into next gear. Careful use of throttle can make this easier, sometimes. This is why dual sports come with a cushioning between Drive and Driven and pretty much all street bikes.
It’s one of the issues when placing a full on dirt bike into dual sport position. Your 250,000 thousand miles must have been all street bikes not to have issues with cush rubbers. ive had to replace on many Yamaha TW 200’s used in off road work. A little dirt and old rubber they would disintegrate, form little chunks and lock out the Cush or allow the two parts to”slam” together. That said 2000 miles seems early for failure. So perhaps a clutch/trans issue.
As a lifelong technician I’d rate the build on the 310 to be quite good compared to the horrors one saw from Chinese just a few years ago. Right up there with Japanese. Teething issues, sure. But it’s a Brand new factory and the 310 is all BMW, just a lower cost one. Many of the parts are not made in India quite a bit of normal outsourcin.
It’s not a $12k enduro that’s too heavy to take off road. The big shame is the poorly managed Dealers that seem to abound. Do not forget BMW means Bring Money With, just how it is.
BMW is the wrong marque for folks worried about money.
Techs and Service managers hate internet “knowledge“ as it’s mostly amplified nonsense/anecdotal BS. You’ll get zero response to “they are all doing it” as BMW has the numbers on failures, they are the one supplying the parts to repair.

 

[WarioGS]

Sorry to hear of issues. Bikes that lack Cush drives (many dirt bikes lack) actually do suffer from transmission/shifting/chain issues when used on non compliant tarmac. Mostly shifting as the trans is unable to unlock for that brief second to allow going into next gear. Careful use of throttle can make this easier, sometimes. This is why dual sports come with a cushioning between Drive and Driven and pretty much all street bikes.
It’s one of the issues when placing a full on dirt bike into dual sport position. Your 250,000 thousand miles must have been all street bikes not to have issues with cush rubbers. ive had to replace on many Yamaha TW 200’s used in off road work. A little dirt and old rubber they would disintegrate, form little chunks and lock out the Cush or allow the two parts to”slam” together. That said 2000 miles seems early for failure. So perhaps a clutch/trans issue.
As a lifelong technician I’d rate the build on the 310 to be quite good compared to the horrors one saw from Chinese just a few years ago. Right up there with Japanese. Teething issues, sure. But it’s a Brand new factory and the 310 is all BMW, just a lower cost one. Many of the parts are not made in India quite a bit of normal outsourcin.
It’s not a $12k enduro that’s too heavy to take off road. The big shame is the poorly managed Dealers that seem to abound. Do not forget BMW means Bring Money With, just how it is.
BMW is the wrong marque for folks worried about money.
Techs and Service managers hate internet “knowledge“ as it’s mostly amplified nonsense/anecdotal BS. You’ll get zero response to “they are all doing it” as BMW has the numbers on failures, they are the one supplying the parts to repair.

Hi Arbolmano - thanks so much for the response! That is very helpful!

You nailed it. All miles are road bikes miles for me - predominantly. Had some dirt but it was casual offroad. Not enough to rinse through parts really. Nailed your post!

Haha yeah you got that right about BMW pricing. £160 or around $200 they wanted for the new battery and that's stock. They said they will replace under warranty but wouldn't 'usually' as it's a consumable. Even though it was delivered to me by them day one - wouldn't start! Non runner. Didn't realise on the day the battery was actually diagnosed as a 'failure' with diagnostics. Roadside assistance picked up on that for me when it wouldn't' start. Crazy as can get a decent one for $100 cheaper than that.

Very interesting about the cush drive rubbers. Yeah many miles in the past and it's not an issue I have ever ran into myself and found after digging through forums other riders that had this issue also didn't even know what the cush drive rubbers even were. So what's bugging me is that BMW said yeah we will replace the rubbers, but my emphasis to them is fine but WHY are they failing on mine and others at such low mileage? That is there an underlying issue here (exactly as you suggest) perhaps clutch/transmission then causing it.

There must be a reason for it. Funny thing is I have had it about 6 months and the following month now it's been offroad now (repairs). My response was clear - you guys delivered it to me faulty day one - now that is proven as per the diagnose so far and still ongoing.

I think in addition yeah you are correct, most bikes (and anything these days) have 'cheap(er)' parts installed from outsourcing. Seems to be like anything now, it's luck of the draw. Sometimes you get a faulty one then have to go head to head with the retailer who always deny anything about the product they sale could possibly have a common fault. I think as many have done, if you take the stock model and identify weak components and throw some money at it you'll get a really decent machine. Just deliberating whether it's worth doing on this bike or leave it stock. Still waiting on a response about the diagnosis on the cush drive rubbers needing doing as I have insisted they keep it until we get a diagnosis as to why. Can't see them falling apart for no reason. I have read about people having them needing replacing regularly - several times under 10k miles on the same bike. Others no issues at all. From what I can gather it also seems to happen as per bearings becoming an issue that stems from the hub needing reboring due to being too tight on the bearings, with knock on effect to the cush drive rubbers.

Feel like a detective

I have basic mechanical knowledge. It's one of the jobs I have always been happy to pay someone skilled to take on. Never wanted to tinker too much with my bikes myself as if get something wrong could be a headache later...literally haha. So I am definitely learning some things through this experience.

 

[WarioGS]

I know a guy who repairs high end speakers. We were talking about this outsourcing and parts debate. He told me a client had a well known high end British speaker brand he works with (repairing a lot). $2500 speakers for the pair new. They had to come in due to a fault and he ordered the parts to replace and diagnosed it as the speaker drivers - he explained the main component expense in the speakers really. Have a guess how much for the drivers for each speaker?

$12! So $24 for the pair. Ordered from China. In a set of 2.5k 'British' speakers. I was even shocked to hear that. This is a high end speaker brand that were making high end British speakers for decades. It's not even consumer level stuff really. You'd expect to pay $500 at least for the cheapest pair and not in any electrical store. Most people I have spoke to about speakers have never heard of the brand. Any enthusiast knows them well.

 

[ARBOLMANO]

The double edge sword of outsourcing. You end up basing your reputation on somebody else’s work as a manufacturer. As a consumer, you get to pay pure profit to OEM unless you can find the outsourced. Nothing new but has really gone crazy as China has become the Worlds manufacturer and outsourcer. Even more complicated with other countries wanting to earn money and have a burgeoning educated workforce. It great though that China has stepped up its game considerably. Besides India made parts I’ve found Taiwanese turn signals, electrical from Ucraine and German parts here and there on the 310. Could you imagine the mess if Politicians started to regulate outsourcing?
The best we can do is ride our motorbikes, though it pays to be a multiple offender so as to ignore wee road bumps in operation for continued operation.
Ride to Live
Live to Ride

 

[Imperiton1]

Hi, welcome to the forum.... and the world of BMW.
You've got a lot of advice already, but thought I'd add my 'two pennorth' !
Cush drive
Like you, all my real biking has been on tarmac, and never even a hint of a cush drive issue after more than 100,000 miles ( at a very conservative estimate ).
However, after a service at 9,000 ( also all road ) miles, I was warned of the need to replace the cush drive on my GS. This I did this myself and, while there was clearly wear, it hardly looked worn out. That said, I had experienced a weird, grinding type of noise from the rear at a very rapid, clutch-slipping take off. The noise was enough that I had stopped to check that nothing untoward was visible.
Upon exposure, I was not impressed ( as a layman ) with the design of the component, as it appeared to have much weaker/thinner joints linking the main shock-absorbing blocks than any of my previous bikes.
With the new drive installed, the noise at rapid take off is still there, but at a lower level.
Is it connected ? Who knows.
Battery/cold start
You will have already seen numerous posts on both these subjects here.
However, you may benefit from reading my recent one:
When is a battery warranty not a battery warranty ?...
It may help provide better luck than I have had to date.

 

[ARBOLMANO]

One thing I learned is that even BMW techs lack a service manual. They depend on a link in Dealer computer and advice takes emails……so it’s real easy for poor work with poor data.
My local Service manager had to get an ok from the mother ship just change out an over charging regulator….took three days to get answer. They are having quite similar issues with Honda but not good ol Harley. They handle all three.

 

[XL125]

Poor starting: My son road to work and could not restart to come home. Told him to crack the throttle a bit (as it says in the manual) and it fired first pop, pulling the clutch in also reducing drag. This plus thinner engine oil for winter really helps. I have not had a problem since doing the above and nor has my son now he does as I advised. Battery quality clearly varies from bike to bike.
Cush drive: Mine were worn at 2,500 miles and BMW said it was because I ragged the bike and they would not renew under warranty as they are a wearing part. I removed them and they 'looked' OK, so I replaced, packing the void with folded sections of inner tube. Sprocket felt tight and easy to do when I needed to take up the slack again. New Cush rubbers are £50 I think. Old inner tube is free.
Chain: Mine was fine when I fitted a 17t font sprocket but it went from acceptable to worn about 500 miles later. Cause? Me running the chain too tight, not cleaning it properly and using too sticky a chain lube that just made grit stick as opposed to lubing the chain. A new DID X ring chain and sprocket kit was under £90 so will fit when I have a 17T front sprocket to go with it.
Poor gear change: My son has trouble. He learned to ride on modern bikes. I rarely have a problem. I learned to ride on bikes with the gear shift on the correct right hand side. One up, three down. I have to think when changing gear on my Indian TVS / BMW roundel 310. This possibly means I match up the throttle and clutch speeds to ease the change, plus I ease and 'hold' the shift lever as the change is made. Not saying you or anyone else is wrong but more that this is what I do and I typically do not have a problem. If the the bike is stuck in gear, however, then I would think something needs adjusting in the 'box itself if all else is as it should be.
BMW dealers: Take a look at the showroom and workshop. Take a peek at the attire worn by the mechanics. Now gulp down a 'free' coffee or soft drink or two. Ask the service counter tech about his working hours. Now examine your wallet and see the void all this has caused to get your TVS serviced or repaired.

My G310R is out of warranty and as the latter was tissue paper thick its demise will not be missed ( but the three years of recovery will be!). Shame TVS do not have a dealer network in the UK as I am sure they would be good at looking after our well-made but not BMW quality bikes. Indian manufacturing quality is no better or worse than anywhere else, it is the components used that can let things slide. These little bikes are not bad but they are not a BMW.

 

[jUST kRUSEN]

I did the same as XL125 to my Cush hub. It was sloppy at 2000 miles. Since adding the innertube rubber I’ve put on 20,000 miles and the hub is still tight.

 

[ARBOLMANO]

The first chain drive BMW was not made by BMW. It was made by contract with Aprilla with a motor by Rotax. So many complaints until everyone figured out it really was a quality bike, just different than the clunky old BMW. Over time BMW took over production ruining the whole bike by changing it to way heavy twin, soon to change production to TVS. They tried a couple of smaller singles but couldn’t sell them in North America. The 310 was intended for Asia not North America
The 310 is a BMW, TVS has nothing like it in their lineup. One bike with same fantastic motor, but track bike. Some design flaws sure, I personally detest using ball bearing head bearings. Some outsourcing issues sure, just like everyone has. Some assembly issues, just like all bikes have. Thankfully BMW has a great Warrant.
Sadly I’m sure there will be a “new” baby GS that will weigh 500lbs and have way more power, ready to cruise tarmac and pretend to go off road once in a while just like the twins.
In the mean enjoy the bike for what it is, a “bargain” with an incredible motor and good warranty. Very upgradable and can stay with much higher priced units once done, still a bargain. Compare Colonel Jerry G’s bike and what he’s invested to a KTM 500. He’s still has less money than stock KTM and same capability with an edge on tarmac. That’s value. And not just on paper! The Colonel has logged mucho miles on and off road with few problems.

 

[XL125]

TVS Apache RR 310
The Ultimate track weapon born out of 35 years of engineering prowess and dominance of TVS Racing. The Apache RR 310 is our ultimate feat of engineering, with relentless performance and innovations like ride modes and throttle-by-wire.
Ex-Showroom Delhi₹ 2 72 000
Onwards

312.2 cc Displacement

34 PS @ 9700 rpmMax Power

2.93 s 0-60 km/h

 

[XL125]

You can buy and ride one of these on the road in India. A 310 with body kit and no costly roundel on the tank. Shame they are not offered in the UK. Wonder if now TVS owned Norton will service my 310 in future?

 

[ARBOLMANO]

Look closer at the fittings. The Apache comes with a large LCD screen and electronics the BMW lacks…..not the same unit.

 

[JerryG]

Look closer at the fittings. The Apache comes with a large LCD screen and electronics the BMW lacks…..not the same unit.

Apples to oranges, you have to compare the current Apache it to the inbound BMW G310RR...
This screenshot is from BMW Motorrad - India's website...