Cush drive rubbers and other issues.. cold start etc
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No, The screenshot I provided above is the RR, not the R - BMW Motorrad India is showing the RR with a TFT. As best as I can tell from the equivalent R and GS pages, the BMW Motorrad India is still showing the R and GS with the current instrument cluster. This is why I told you that rather than getting race version of the 310R from Native Enterprise, I would prefer to get the street legal G310RR. Links...
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725 Posts
No North America timeline yet, but given the sunk costs of putting the upgrades in the RR and the ease of transfer to the R and GS, I expect all the RR upgrades to migrate to the R and GS eventually. They have to because the competition in that class is heating up. I'm thinking RR will come to NA in MY 24 and the R and GS get upgraded in MY 25. That would be five years after the 2020 GS upgrade.
Not suggesting they are the same but based on core components to include the vitals such as engine, transmission, brakes, forks and wheels. As to the electronics, the ECU could well be different to enable the engine to meet US and EU emission regulations. The dash will of course be different, as will the styling to separate TVS from BMW. Had to chuckle at BMW describing the LED headlight on the RR as safe and convenient. I wonder if it helps you see where you are going at night. The RR is the same under the skin as what we already have, AKA badge engineering.
Great discussion guys.
An update from the BMW dealer. Now it's over three weeks in with them and they said they have 'fixed' something with the electrics, changed the battery and got the cush drive rubbers in. What has been explained well is how the cush drive rubbers could be 'failing/wearing' on such low milage (not BMW that explained this) due to bearings/hub tolerance machined too small - thus wearing bearings then cush drive rubbers, or transmission issues which can be much more serious/expensive later to fix.
Spoke on the phone and they said 'still diagnosing and may be transmission - but no clear answer yet'. Now over three weeks with them and they still don't have a clear answer.
In short they delivered the bike to me day one 'fully serviced' as a non- starter/runner with the battery issue and the gear shift issues being present day one. What they should have done is INSISTED they collect and test everything ASAP. That didn't happen. As the issues subsided (for a while) but I kept getting the shift issue irregularly but it was there.
I said my main concern is this is sorted for now with some new consumable bits and then:
A: It has to go back in for more repairs/diagnostics later due to this issue
B: It fails out of warranty. If it's transmission for example it can be very expensive to diagnose/repair.
I spoke to what we have in UK - citizens Advice - They explained the law for consumers with this specific issue I have had from day one and said I have full legal right to reject the bike.
I made the decision to do this today. So they are now discussing it and I am waiting on response.
The time for their parts to arrive (near three weeks for the cush rubbers) and the fact I have had to chase them (no one has called me once since they took it). I found the workshop guy had a shitty attitude a couple of times - Like how can a BMW have a common fault, he 'check the computer and it said NO they don't have a common cold start issue - cheap crappy OEM batteries etc' prior to going in. Yet he has had to swap the battery (to another OEM one which I said I didn't want as even the roadside assistance guy from BMW told be the batteries are a nightmare and BMW should change for an upgraded quality one - he does collect roadside breakdown for a living and said its common - BMW deny this
An update from the BMW dealer. Now it's over three weeks in with them and they said they have 'fixed' something with the electrics, changed the battery and got the cush drive rubbers in. What has been explained well is how the cush drive rubbers could be 'failing/wearing' on such low milage (not BMW that explained this) due to bearings/hub tolerance machined too small - thus wearing bearings then cush drive rubbers, or transmission issues which can be much more serious/expensive later to fix.
Spoke on the phone and they said 'still diagnosing and may be transmission - but no clear answer yet'. Now over three weeks with them and they still don't have a clear answer.
In short they delivered the bike to me day one 'fully serviced' as a non- starter/runner with the battery issue and the gear shift issues being present day one. What they should have done is INSISTED they collect and test everything ASAP. That didn't happen. As the issues subsided (for a while) but I kept getting the shift issue irregularly but it was there.
I said my main concern is this is sorted for now with some new consumable bits and then:
A: It has to go back in for more repairs/diagnostics later due to this issue
B: It fails out of warranty. If it's transmission for example it can be very expensive to diagnose/repair.
I spoke to what we have in UK - citizens Advice - They explained the law for consumers with this specific issue I have had from day one and said I have full legal right to reject the bike.
I made the decision to do this today. So they are now discussing it and I am waiting on response.
The time for their parts to arrive (near three weeks for the cush rubbers) and the fact I have had to chase them (no one has called me once since they took it). I found the workshop guy had a shitty attitude a couple of times - Like how can a BMW have a common fault, he 'check the computer and it said NO they don't have a common cold start issue - cheap crappy OEM batteries etc' prior to going in. Yet he has had to swap the battery (to another OEM one which I said I didn't want as even the roadside assistance guy from BMW told be the batteries are a nightmare and BMW should change for an upgraded quality one - he does collect roadside breakdown for a living and said its common - BMW deny this
Also he has had to 'amend' the electrical loom but they have not explained exactly what has been done.
The time it's taking them and left me 'offroad' is over a month now. I have seen several other good threads on BMW UK taking weeks or longer to get basic rudimentary parts shipped in and I can verify that's very accurate!
It's probably a morning's work for a good mech at most. Ultimately the decision is now past the bike and down to the future possibility of it being with them for prolonged periods. If it turns out it's a trans fault then may not see the bike for 6 weeks or more. They say they have a lead time until April/May and I am 'lucky' I am getting it 'dealt with' so fast... like they didn't deliver it to me with these faults day one!
I was considering a larger GS - two actually next year. But if is how long it takes them to service/fix issues in the Winter (most bikes off-road) how long is the parts/service time in the summer?
My only take on such long service times is not enough staff/workshop space - and not having simple parts in stock. That is bad management imo!
Will let you all know how it plays out. If they start to 'f around'' with 'part refund' I am going fully legal. I have had to pick up taxi bills for the last month (was my main commute) and the inconvenience caused by it all.
Not good BMW. Depending how the next part of all this goes will sway my decision to a larger GS ownership or a different brand altogether.
Anyone have experience with the Honda CB500x, KTM adventure 390, or anything else in this 'class'. Also of issues/turnaround time if issues arise to sort and redeliver from the manufacturer.
Bigger GS's are fantastic but it's useless if it takes them 3/4 weeks to get a rudimentary part into stock from abroad for what's an hour job. Totally ridiculous for a company this size.
Will shop bigger adventure bike next year. Would love to hear personal experience of others in this adventure bike class/similar low weights. Something good with luggage/pillion. I realise there are caveats at this power point with a pillion/luggage (extra weight) but it's only for occasional extra weight.
The time it's taking them and left me 'offroad' is over a month now. I have seen several other good threads on BMW UK taking weeks or longer to get basic rudimentary parts shipped in and I can verify that's very accurate!
It's probably a morning's work for a good mech at most. Ultimately the decision is now past the bike and down to the future possibility of it being with them for prolonged periods. If it turns out it's a trans fault then may not see the bike for 6 weeks or more. They say they have a lead time until April/May and I am 'lucky' I am getting it 'dealt with' so fast... like they didn't deliver it to me with these faults day one!
I was considering a larger GS - two actually next year. But if is how long it takes them to service/fix issues in the Winter (most bikes off-road) how long is the parts/service time in the summer?
My only take on such long service times is not enough staff/workshop space - and not having simple parts in stock. That is bad management imo!
Will let you all know how it plays out. If they start to 'f around'' with 'part refund' I am going fully legal. I have had to pick up taxi bills for the last month (was my main commute) and the inconvenience caused by it all.
Not good BMW. Depending how the next part of all this goes will sway my decision to a larger GS ownership or a different brand altogether.
Anyone have experience with the Honda CB500x, KTM adventure 390, or anything else in this 'class'. Also of issues/turnaround time if issues arise to sort and redeliver from the manufacturer.
Bigger GS's are fantastic but it's useless if it takes them 3/4 weeks to get a rudimentary part into stock from abroad for what's an hour job. Totally ridiculous for a company this size.
Will shop bigger adventure bike next year. Would love to hear personal experience of others in this adventure bike class/similar low weights. Something good with luggage/pillion. I realise there are caveats at this power point with a pillion/luggage (extra weight) but it's only for occasional extra weight.
Just my two cents while on topic with all of this - I think imo anyone with a 310GS should definitely consider swapping to an after market battery (non OEM) (may as well do the sprockets also). Seen some great videos on swapping the ratio out on the front sprocket and getting much nicer response for this bike.
This is my first 'owner' experience with 'adventure' bikes as plan to do some off-roading/camping (pillion also). I need something reliable and I want low weight class before next year when upgrading to larger adventure bikes..
Need two bikes again
This is my first 'owner' experience with 'adventure' bikes as plan to do some off-roading/camping (pillion also). I need something reliable and I want low weight class before next year when upgrading to larger adventure bikes..
Need two bikes again
Also I think regarding the servicing/time. I didn't know it would take them several weeks to get basic parts in if they needed to be done.
But they MUST have known it likely. No one said anything about it all.
Why didn't they drop me a 'loan' bike when they picked mine up. That would have made the whole experience much less hassle.
It's things like this I would consider shitty customer care. They knew it had faults and very possibly transmission (time consuming to fix if busy which they said they are) and it wouldn't be back with me in a 'few days'.
This experience with them has turned me off as much as the faults on the bike at this mileage.
I have actually spent a lot of time in India and dealing with bike issues there/slow part arrival times/slow repair times, etc etc and I can honestly say this is way worse than what I experienced in India.
I think these are major considerations people should be aware of if deliberating buying a BMW in the UK in particular. You wouldn't expect it here typically but here we are.
But they MUST have known it likely. No one said anything about it all.
Why didn't they drop me a 'loan' bike when they picked mine up. That would have made the whole experience much less hassle.
It's things like this I would consider shitty customer care. They knew it had faults and very possibly transmission (time consuming to fix if busy which they said they are) and it wouldn't be back with me in a 'few days'.
This experience with them has turned me off as much as the faults on the bike at this mileage.
I have actually spent a lot of time in India and dealing with bike issues there/slow part arrival times/slow repair times, etc etc and I can honestly say this is way worse than what I experienced in India.
I think these are major considerations people should be aware of if deliberating buying a BMW in the UK in particular. You wouldn't expect it here typically but here we are.
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96 Posts
My stock chain lasted over 18,000 miles. Most of which was on dirt. I also dropped the gearing right from the start. Went with a smaller crankshaft sprocket. The bike is much livelier & quicker. Mpgs did not suffer.
You have done 18k+ miles on the stock chain, mostly off-road?
Defo seen many thumbs up about the smaller sprocket
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1,206 Posts
Given the issues your having with BMW service, your best choice may be to walk away really.
The 310 isn’t for everyone and there are some very competitive units. Having a decent Dealer back up may well be key to happy motorbike ownership in these modern times. Particularly with a new model built in new factory.
I’d suggest the Kawasaki Versys, Honda CRF L as two such.
The chain on BMW is actually a quite good one. Quick rusting could be sign of really good steel actually, though changing your maintenance schedule would be advised if see rust at all.
Sorry to hear of your troubles
The 310 isn’t for everyone and there are some very competitive units. Having a decent Dealer back up may well be key to happy motorbike ownership in these modern times. Particularly with a new model built in new factory.
I’d suggest the Kawasaki Versys, Honda CRF L as two such.
The chain on BMW is actually a quite good one. Quick rusting could be sign of really good steel actually, though changing your maintenance schedule would be advised if see rust at all.
Sorry to hear of your troubles
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its a sad sh1tty story....one of the worst.
I also find my local dealer snears down his nose at me for only having a 310...!
Most work now is either done by myself or a good local Ma/Pa workshop.
I'd go with Honda.
I wish you luck - I have a gut feeling bmw will make you life even more difficult.
ATB ...
I also find my local dealer snears down his nose at me for only having a 310...!
Most work now is either done by myself or a good local Ma/Pa workshop.
I'd go with Honda.
I wish you luck - I have a gut feeling bmw will make you life even more difficult.
ATB ...
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725 Posts
Not that it matters here in the US since the Apache isn't available, but I'm curious, in what way is the Apache "better spec" than the BMW RR?
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Glad to hear you have this option and that you've taken it. I would have too in your situation. At this point, given your need for a reliable commuter, I would find a dealer with a sterling reputation near you and buy the bike they have that comes closest to meeting your needs. Thoughts from the peanut gallery: My BMW dealer is also a KTM dealer - most of their mechanics ride KTMs. A friend of mine has a KTM 390 and she loves it for on- and off-road. Noraly, aka Itchy Boots on Youtube, has been riding a Honda CRF300 Rally, first from South America to the top of Alaska and now in Morocco on her way in/around/through northern/western Africa. P.S. She did run with her chain too tight necessitating a engine rebuild to replace the bent output shaft, so maintain the proper slack on your chain. Good hunting and let us know what you end up with.
Thanks brothers. Yeah I appreciate from quite a lot of threads it seems if you get a 'bad one' they often seem to dish out ALL the common faults for some quite often and absolute agree I think I know why the last owner traded it in at such a low mileage now. These issues were intermittent at first but for example thought the battery was just 'flat' on delivery - not actually a 'failure'.
Ha I found this exactly! They were talking to me like it was my first bike at first (as it's the little GS) and I just let them dig a hole. They did also! Then I explained I just went for a BMW - Baby GS for a few reasons:
1: To Have some crazy cheap run-around! It's very cheap for me to insure also, let alone almost 'free' on fuel. Exceptional compared to running a large van. We were paying £1.85 approx for fuel in the UK - which is about $2.25 per litre here for quite a while (it's dipped a bit now). Best finger you can give to fuel companies when they started profiteering is get a vehicle that uses hardly any fuel
2: To test my local dealer out, if it did have issues - how they handled them, how long it took, etc. I think the experience has been amplified through the dealer experience. Very slow parts delivery times, lack of contacting me to give updates (none whatsoever even given the request to refund). It's been 5 days since the manager first said she is on the mission to find out about right to refund. I had to quote the law to her yesterday when they tried to fob me off saying 'as you have had it over 6 months, rights change...' (not here in the UK they don't with something with a reported fault(s) also on day one of delivery).
They actually tried to get me buy a bigger BMW bike from them with the money (that will be due for refund) at first.
Good to note
I was lubing the chain up once a week with a good chain lube spray. Actually given the chain comments from others I wonder if the previous owner HAD actually changed to an aftermarket chain that was of lesser quality.
That is something I will try and find out. It really is an odd ball chain - I have never seen any go from fresh and clean (it was) to as rusty as it has so fast - covered, wire brushed and lubed well/regularly from Sept to early Nov (autumn to mild winter month one in UK)
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