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Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
Glad to hear you have this option and that you've taken it. I would have too in your situation. At this point, given your need for a reliable commuter, I would find a dealer with a sterling reputation near you and buy the bike they have that comes closest to meeting your needs. Thoughts from the peanut gallery: My BMW dealer is also a KTM dealer - most of their mechanics ride KTMs. A friend of mine has a KTM 390 and she loves it for on- and off-road. Noraly, aka Itchy Boots on Youtube, has been riding a Honda CRF300 Rally, first from South America to the top of Alaska and now in Morocco on her way in/around/through northern/western Africa. P.S. She did run with her chain too tight necessitating a engine rebuild to replace the bent output shaft, so maintain the proper slack on your chain. Good hunting and let us know what you end up with.
Hi Jerry - Yeah I have that option here luckily.

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Not suggesting they are the same but based on core components to include the vitals such as engine, transmission, brakes, forks and wheels. As to the electronics, the ECU could well be different to enable the engine to meet US and EU emission regulations. The dash will of course be different, as will the styling to separate TVS from BMW. Had to chuckle at BMW describing the LED headlight on the RR as safe and convenient. I wonder if it helps you see where you are going at night. The RR is the same under the skin as what we already have, AKA badge engineering.
Yes and no. Just like the S1000RR and S1000XR I have, and the S1000R I don't have, I would expect the G310RR, R, and GS ECU and TFT hardware to be the same while the programming would be unique to each bike's purpose and the badge on the bike, BMW or TVS.

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Discussion Starter · #44 · (Edited)
Hi all,

Just to give those interested the 'update'.

Rejected the bike 10 days ago in writing under the 'Consumer goods act' in the UK for several reasons. Goods of unsatsfactory quality and 'correcting this' or repairs taking an unreasonable amount of time. They have had it a month and still no final diagnosis.

In short they came back to me and basically BMW said this..

We will BUY the bike from you for £2250.. 'market value' (according to them) with the new mileage on it - 3164 miles (2019)

I paid £3699 (used - very good price with the mileage then hence buying it). Current market value with the current mileage is... £3700/£3800. The bike is worth even with the miles I have put on, the same money. I got a great price on it originally. I see why now!

I explained I am not selling it to you for a £1500 LOSS, I am rejecting the bike/contract etc for a refund and I have £500+ in expenses and taxis for the last 5 weeks it's been off the road.

In short they are breaking consumer law and ignoring my requests (I made it crystal clear where I stand and why). They also tried to get me to buy a more expensive bike with the money instead of refund. I declined. They have pushed again for this twice. I have declined, the last time a lot more short tempered than the last two.

Now I have contacted the BMW Finance company and 'rejected the item' as per the legal advice given.

UPDATE: AS I write this I had an email saying they will return the money in full if I walk away from it. I was about to get a lawyer (tomorrow) If they persisted to tell me the bike is only worth £2250 and trying to commit fraud (telling me it's worth £1500 less is trying to defraud me) onto of everything else.

Then after more battling they agreed to give me the full money back. BUT then they drew the paperwork up with £270 reduced from what I paid to date. I challenged this and they said its 'interest' added by the finance company. I called BMW Financial services. They said this is nonsense and they haven't charged £270 to date at all.

Now it's in their hands.

This is FAR more issue with the dealer than with the bike. It probably would have taken a good mech with parts in hand 2 hrs to sort it. Now it's been near 6 weeks off the road and with them for a month or so.

In short I will NEVER buy a BMW or deal with BMW again after this. I will warn every person I meet in future of my case.

What they don't know (yet) is I was planning on buying two new BMW GS1250's next Spring. This has cost them at least £34000 in sales from me alone. Plan on a EU tour next year. That was what I was looking at. Solid bikes! Awful dealers and shocking times for parts/servicing. Did I mention they didn't contact me once about the status of the bike. Not until I got the ball rolling on 'Rejecting the goods by law'.

For the sake of messing around with a few hundred £ (which I will get back anyway, just a more drawn out fashion).

I will name and shame them at the end of this all to help any bike bros be fully aware what they are getting into if one of these goes bad with this dealership. I will also forward everything to BMW as they are an offcial reseller/franschise I understand. I think they would want to know about this whole experience. I would If it were my company.

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Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
its a sad sh1tty of the worst.
I also find my local dealer snears down his nose at me for only having a 310...!
Most work now is either done by myself or a good local Ma/Pa workshop.

I'd go with Honda.

I wish you luck - I have a gut feeling bmw will make you life even more difficult.
ATB ...
This in my experience G0MYW, has to be one of the most valid comments on this thread.

How they spoke to me a few times was out of order (workshop mainly) and how they handled all this.

I financed a cheap bike £3700 - for two reasons -

1: To find out how good the cheaper 310 is with the BMW badge on it. Plus wanted a fun little runabout that's basically 'free' to keep on the road (before I want my big tourers for the partner and I)
2: To keep my credit rating 'topped up'. I use 'debt' smartly. It keeps the credit score topped up well using cheap debt. Mobile phone contract, cheap bike finance, things like this is a greta way to keep credit score topped up well...

By default they assume I can barely afford a £3700 bike as I financed the cheapest model they sell. . Wrong.

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Yup agreed also G0MYW - I think Honda are the way to go. For reliability.

That may now quite be as 'cool' as other brands but I need reliable and good service. Honda dealers in my research as of today are still pretty solid overall.

I kind of always knew that but I like the ride on the big GS's. Haven't owned one. I love the KTM 890's but they have too many recurring issues that KTM are still ignoring to date. KTM are another company going down an ignorant road imo. Not listening to consumers and 'telling them' whats they want.

Outsourcing the new 790 to CFMOTO (China built) and dropping the KTM 490 Adventure was a terrible idea imo. If they made the 490 with the tech issues worked out of the KTM bikes they would probably dominate the market in this CC range for a few years and also drive all the other companies to compete.

IMO Royal Enfield are smashing it at the moment. They are listening to consumers and the bike prices are VERY solid. A lot of issues are being worked out it seems. With bad welding and frame quality.

What Royal Enfield are really exposing with the new bikes is not that they sell bikes 'cheap' its how expensive other bikes are getting. Harley have literally become a Merch company. They priced most people totally out of the market with the new 'sportster' starting at 16k in the UK - the 883 Iron was 7.5k for years here until only a few ago. People loved that bike. Sold well around the world.

Think Royal Enfield will absorb a lot of money from Harley for the cruisers and from the other brands for the adventure bikes.

The new LC 450 Engine is coming with more HP - also the 650 LC engine - so that's the Himalayan and the Scram getting solid upgrades. Total overhauls.

Has anyone tried the Scram 411 yet? Or the Hunter 350 with the new engine? It's literally superb, sounds fkin amazing (way better than the average adventure sewing machine sounding engines) and half the cost of the GS310 or 390 KTM..

I am looking at a project Scram 411 (I defo want to try the new engine LC 450 Himalayan/Scram with more HP) - I have seen some great mods - camshaft upgrade for £170 (part) give 20% more power to that engine. Brings it to about 29hp. Still a bit low sure, but better. Could be a fun project. Nice looking bikes also and GREAT sound. Those Hunter 350s sound awesome too. Not really an off-road bike but could make some amendments. Still a bit underpowered but what a steal that thing is for the money.

RE are going to smash it when the new lines launch. With the pricing also. I think KTM, BMW, Honda etc are going to have some stiff competition - so much so I can see prices decreasing with other leading brands to get competitive to RE over the next couple of years depending when these new models launch. Apparently this year to next year.

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Funnily enough - Just spoke to my local Royal Enfield dealer. They trade other bikes also and are a good size company and well established and a respected business.

Mentioned the 310 issues (not the dealer issues) to him - He told me he has had several come back to him that he has sold that then later had issues (this is the main mech I am talking with today) - Numerous electrical faults which can be a real pain to diagnose, bearings disintegrating in the gearbox, transmission issues and rebuilds. In short he said he will not stock them, or let them be traded in anymore. I had no idea of this when I spoke to him today. He also mentioned the lead time from the local dealer (he didn't know we had the same dealer) are shockingly long (several months in some cases) and have been like this for years (even pre covid). He wont stock BMW at all anymore!

Interesting conversation today.

It seems if you are unlucky to get a 'bad' 310GS they can be a REAL headache! Including with our local BMW dealers being utterly useless to sort anything.

Just found out they do the full cam shaft upgrade in house on the 411 RE for £350 all in (icl parts), for 20% more engine power and a nice lot of increase power curve on the dyno.

All in the whole expense for the brand new bike and the upgrades is the same (with finance interest) as the used GS310. Would bring the HP to about 29HP.. much closer to the BMW HP.

He was explaining how when all these bikes - KTM, 310, and others get issues they are a pain to sort very often.

Best thing - nothing to really go wrong on them. Test riding a few again in the range tomorrow. Spring around the corner - lets get dirty!
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