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Discussion Starter #1
I looked at that complete conversion like in that video -

And I was wondering, what is the point? If you want an off-road bike, get crf 250L which would be much superior for such task and is virtually unbreakable. Why to spend so much money? You can just not-modify the gs and get one crf at the same cost!

I see the gs as a bike for road and bad roads, not to trash in really bad terrain. Also I like alloy wheels with tubeless tires. I had too many punctures in my life; it is a real bummer. well they offer now spoked tubeless wheels as well, if you want to spend a fortune. Still, they offer very nice products. I ordered their level 1 rear shock which looks very promising. it is not that gs needs such shock, but it is a bit too much on the soft side.
 

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A nice bike, but a seat hight of 875 mm!?


I'm happy to mount the hight of 825 mm without a crane or a, how it is called in the Rhineland here in Germany,
"Schabellchen"


(This is a small step stool, the german name comes from the times in 19th century, when Cologne and Rhineland was occupied by the french army, maybe the french soldiers called such a step stool an escabelle. The meaning of "Fissematentchen" in german slang can be explained later:laugh:)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
A nice bike, but a seat hight of 875 mm!?


I'm happy to mount the hight of 825 mm without a crane or a, how it is called in the Rhineland here in Germany,
"Schabellchen"


(This is a small step stool, the german name comes from the times in 19th century, when Cologne and Rhineland was occupied by the french army, maybe the french soldiers called such a step stool an escabelle. The meaning of "Fissematentchen" in german slang can be explained later:laugh:)
yes, i am on tip toes on that one, but it is very easy to control. honda was very clever in designing that bike. to access the air filter, or other stuff, you do not need to take out 100 bolts. and unless you fall really hard, there are no scratches on the fearing. as I wrote, it is unbreakable. still, gs is much more comfortable. but my crf though 250cc is stronger than gs. i am really looking forward for some aftermarket companies coming with some fuel controller. 313cc bike should have much more power than it has now!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes,
here is a link to the german website of Svenja (formerly Sven), who is now driving a Honda CRF 250 Rally on her voyages round Europe.
Bur she is not such a small body size...
If you can read german, she makes interesting travels!
https://www.svendura.de/2018island01.php
you know that Rally is much taller than 250L?

to be honest, after serious accident with 250L, I realised that i am too old for that stuff, and converted the bike to 250M, by fitting smaller 17" wheels. I sealed the spokes with goop and run it tubeless.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Oh, yes, I see, 895 mm seat hight.
Nearer to heaven.
We small ones would need stilts.
Or a camelopard, running besides :x
Motorcycle Ergonomics
my point was not the seat hight, but the fact that converting gs into dirt bike just does not make sense, if you can get for the price of conversion a new proper dirt bike. and crf250L can be also lowered to suit one's needs if this is required.
 

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That's true.
Nearly 10.000 Euro with the purchase price.
To much for this little bike


Befor buying the BMW I tried the Kawasaki Versys x 300, a nice bike with spoke Wheels, nearly 40 hp 2 cylinders and in Germany the same price.
But I took the BMW, motor has not so high speed and the seat is much more comfortable.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That's true.
Nearly 10.000 Euro with the purchase price.
To much for this little bike


Befor buying the BMW I tried the Kawasaki Versys x 300, a nice bike with spoke Wheels, nearly 40 hp 2 cylinders and in Germany the same price.
But I took the BMW, motor has not so high speed and the seat is much more comfortable.
versys 300 is an interesting option. for sure more reliable. but here it is much more expensive than gs. also I like the charm of single cylinder.
 

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IMO: The GS is a dual purpose bike with good but not great handling on and off road. The bike is fine for the average rider on both surfaces. Only when start to really push the bike in the twisties, add a fair bit of luggage or a pillion or go fast through rough off road or object will you notice the suspension lacking where you need it, i.e. proper adjustment and progressive damping. It does not take much to bottom the suspension out off road or try to put the side stand out with a pillion on the back:) The Rally Raid conversion improves the bikes suspension and wheel strength considerably but no point in spending the money if that is not how you intend to use the bike. Upgrading the suspension on a dual purpose motorcycle is quite common and also done on motorcycles double and triple the price of the G310GS - I personally feel better about spending that money on top of the G310's lower price tag. Like the CRF250, there are loads of off road focus bikes that would out perform the G310GS off road, but the GS is a dual purpose motorcycle so you should compare it with motorcycles lie the Himalayan. I did a 1000km trip on my 310 last weekend, I would not want to do the on a CRF250 if I had a choice in the matter.

On a side note, the Rally Raid suspension comes in lower than OEM, same and higher than OEM options. Keep in mind, reduction in seat height = reduction in ground clearance.
 
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Discussion Starter #11
IMO: The GS is a dual purpose bike with good but not great handling on and off road. The bike is fine for the average rider on both surfaces. Only when start to really push the bike in the twisties, add a fair bit of luggage or a pillion or go fast through rough off road or object will you notice the suspension lacking where you need it, i.e. proper adjustment and progressive damping. It does not take much to bottom the suspension out off road or try to put the side stand out with a pillion on the back:) The Rally Raid conversion improves the bikes suspension and wheel strength considerably but no point in spending the money if that is not how you intend to use the bike. Upgrading the suspension on a dual purpose motorcycle is quite common and also done on motorcycles double and triple the price of the G310GS - I personally feel better about spending that money on top of the G310's lower price tag. Like the CRF250, there are loads of off road focus bikes that would out perform the G310GS off road, but the GS is a dual purpose motorcycle so you should compare it with motorcycles lie the Himalayan. I did a 1000km trip on my 310 last weekend, I would not want to do the on a CRF250 if I had a choice in the matter.

On a side note, the Rally Raid suspension comes in lower than OEM, same and higher than OEM options. Keep in mind, reduction in seat height = reduction in ground clearance.
the benefit or RR suspension is that you can get the correct spring rate, and of course, the damping/compression control. i also find the front suspension too soft and ordered hypepro front springs. But one can drive the bike in stock set up with no problems. I live in Himalayas and feel very comfortable when twisty roads, much more than on Tiger which is just too heavy.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
the benefit or RR suspension is that you can get the correct spring rate, and of course, the damping/compression control. i also find the front suspension too soft and ordered hypepro front springs. But one can drive the bike in stock set up with no problems. I live in Himalayas and feel very comfortable when on twisty roads, much more so than on Tiger which is just too heavy.
 

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Agreed, but just to clarify, I was referring to the Royal Enfield Himalayan as being a comparable motorcycle:) I also enjoy it in the twisties but found with as little as 6/7kg on the rear rack I have to crank the pre load to almost max otherwise I get the sensation of the front "floating" in the bends. Peronally my off road skill is not yet at a point where I can really justify the cost of a suspension and possible wheel upgrade.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Agreed, but just to clarify, I was referring to the Royal Enfield Himalayan as being a comparable motorcycle:) I also enjoy it in the twisties but found with as little as 6/7kg on the rear rack I have to crank the pre load to almost max otherwise I get the sensation of the front "floating" in the bends. Peronally my off road skill is not yet at a point where I can really justify the cost of a suspension and possible wheel upgrade.
I had in my life like 9 enfields. now, i have just 2, the real ones - old iron barrel models, modified with english parts, and dry clutch belt drive, and works, 612cc. I do love them. Regarding the Himalayan, it looks nice and the design is sound, but all the parts are of very poor quality. i did some test rides from the showroom, and even then, the front forks were already damaged. it has also too little power for 400cc engine.

gs is not for serious off-roading. why to change the wheels? they are great, tubeless, and have very good tires on them.
 

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I had in my life like 9 enfields. now, i have just 2, the real ones - old iron barrel models, modified with english parts, and dry clutch belt drive, and works, 612cc. I do love them. Regarding the Himalayan, it looks nice and the design is sound, but all the parts are of very poor quality. i did some test rides from the showroom, and even then, the front forks were already damaged. it has also too little power for 400cc engine.

gs is not for serious off-roading. why to change the wheels? they are great, tubeless, and have very good tires on them.
a colleague rides a Classic 500 desert storm and loves it. Like you said, the GS is not for serious off-roading but with a few mods becomes a motorcycle that is a lot more adept to a lot more environments. I had to change the tires to something more 50/50 prior to an off road course and I was very glad I did on the steep rocky hills and in the muddy sections. Changing the wheels is a very low priority for me at this stage, the spoke wheels do deal better with impacts and damage, but like you say, tubeless, is a lot easier to live with in terms of puncture repair. If I ever went for spoke wheels it would have to be the tubeless type.
 

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Yes, as Francoisps suggests - the Rally-Raid suspension is not just to make it better 'off-road' but to make the suspension better everywhere, since it is much higher quality and has adjustability compared to the stock components.

Even if you don't [plan to] ride your GS like the bike in the video, you'll appreciate the increased feeling of sure-footedness and damping (and with the RR fork kit particularly less prone to dive) - basically it makes the bike ride and handle like a more expensive machine, which it is of course - because you've spent some money on it.

If you've not seen it all ready, my ride report from last summer all over the USA is here - mine is a LEVEL 1 bike, that is with standard height/travel upgraded suspension and spoked wheels:

Beemer Beemer, chicken deener!

Certainly the wheels are not essential (although look great and are very strong - not once going out of true or needing adjusting, just fit and forget), but the front and rear suspension really does make a huge difference to how this bike rides compared to standard.

Jenny x
 

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Discussion Starter #17
yes, the stock suspension is way to soft, too little damping and low spring rates. I changed the rear as well to the level 1, which is enough for my needs. Now trying to fit the hyperpro front springs, because the front is diving too much for my liking. Also will fill the forks with better oil.
 

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I'm not familiar with the Hyperpro spring kit Kris, but I saw your other post/thread about the left hand leg - certainly trying to remove/replace the left hand spring is not an easy job without the correct tool - John had to get a bit medieval with it originally.

for info. as I think you're aware, in comparison the Rally-Raid fork kit only replaces the right hand [main] spring, while the [OEM] left spring is deemed sufficient as a helper once the main right hand side is upgraded. The RR kit also includes replacement caps and a preload adjuster for the main spring too:



Jx
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm not familiar with the Hyperpro spring kit Kris, but I saw your other post/thread about the left hand leg - certainly trying to remove/replace the left hand spring is not an easy job without the correct tool - John had to get a bit medieval with it originally.

for info. as I think you're aware, in comparison the Rally-Raid fork kit only replaces the right hand [main] spring, while the [OEM] left spring is deemed sufficient as a helper once the main right hand side is upgraded. The RR kit also includes replacement caps and a preload adjuster for the main spring too:



Jx
yes, thanks. as i wrote in the other thread, i managed to open the inner nut with heat gun and leathermen pliers, once I melted down the red loktite.

I don't really know the difference between the two kits, in terms of the final outcome. hyperpro has 2 progressive springs of the same dimensions on both sides.
 

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yes, thanks. as i wrote in the other thread, i managed to open the inner nut with heat gun and leathermen pliers, once I melted down the red loktite.

I don't really know the difference between the two kits, in terms of the final outcome. hyperpro has 2 progressive springs of the same dimensions on both sides.
Following on from Kris' comment above - in the interest of saving people from having to look at multiple threads, I will copy my replies in that thread here too for reference:

The length of the spring does not dictate the travel, it is the length of the damper rod - and in both instances those remain unchanged (unless there is a manufacturer who is making a replacement cartridge kit for both legs).

As you ascertained, all the main 'functionality' is in the right hand leg of the G310 models - it's increasingly common practice for both cost and weight saving to split the damping and springing functions between legs - for example, the majority of dirt bikes have a compression [damping] cartridge in one leg, and the rebound cartridge in the other; while on budget bikes like the CRF250L for example, the spring is in one leg and the [combined] damping cartridge in the other - much like the majority of mountain-bikes these days too.

In the case of the G310 series, both the damping functions and main spring are in the right hand leg - the left leg has a simple rod (no actually damping control) and second 'helper' spring to match the travel length of the right hand leg - but all the primary function is in the right hand leg, which is probably why BMW used red Loctite to fix the components of the left hand leg together, as there is no need to split/change them, and the fork can be simply inverted to empty the oil as and when you need to change it (note. the oil in the left leg is primarily for lubrication, not damping, so it's weight and volume is not so specific as it is for the right hand side).

This is why (if you consult the Rally-Raid fork kit fitting instructions) you only need to change the spring in the right hand leg and set the oil lever [for the damping], and why their preload adjuster is only on the right hand leg.

You don't need to worry about forks being 'uneven' - particularly with USD forks - you could run them with nothing in the left if you wanted and it wouldn't affect the handling - the axle keeps everything parallel.

note. for info. the Rally Raid LEVEL 2 fork kit does not offer more overall travel (since the OEM damper rod remains unchanged), it simply moves the to of the damper rod down so that more chrome fork leg is showing/raises the front of the bike to match the extra travel and ride-height of the rear shock, but the actual swept length remains the same at the front - it is only the LEVEL 2 shock that offers more travel as well as an increase in ride-height.

Hope that clarifies things!

Jenny x


...it depends on what you've changed the spring rate to - if the spring in the right hand leg is now stiffer than before (and stiffer than the one in the left leg), then the left leg spring isn't going to have any effect on the rate of the new [main] spring.

Traditional fork design (with a pair of springs) typically changes the rate of both springs [equally] as the load was shared between the two legs - but in modern USD designs, this isn't necessarily the case anymore (such as the CRF250L example I mentioned above, there is only one spring, in one leg only).

I don't know what spring rate Hyperpro are using in their kit, but it's possible [particularly if they are progressive rate] that the reason you felt your front end still diving with only one of their springs installed was because the initial rate was still very soft (and needed to be boosted by having their other spring installed) - as I say, the OEM left hand spring is really only there as a 'helper' for the main spring - so it's possible that Hyperpro have decided to share the spring load across two springs, rather than one (as per the OEM set-up and the RR upgraded parts), which is why yours still felt soft until you'd changed both springs.

There is nothing wrong with using their 'shared load' approach of course - however, as you experienced, it is very tricky for someone in their garage to disassemble the left hand internal assembly compared to the right hand side - something I presume Hyperpro didn't full consider perhaps?


As for your forks sliding at 'different rates', unless you have some kind of bushing or alignment issue, it should not make any difference - the forks tubes are designed to slide up and down with no discernible resistance, and the axle diameter of a USD fork braces the two lower [stanchion] parts anyway - this is one of the reasons why USD forks tend to have much larger diameter axles than older conventional forks used to have (which also sometimes had additional braces of course). As I say, there will be no discernible stress on the axle unless you are suffering stiction or an alignment issue with the fork legs/bushes.


Regarding your CRF front end - I can only imagine that the fork kit you initially fitted (in just one leg) did not have a sufficiently high enough spring rate for your intended application. I have a friend with a CRF250L rally with the Ohlins shock and fork kit, and that is very nicely dialled in - plush, but will little dive when you start to press on.


Your final question I hope I have answered already in my description above - basically the Rally-Raid fork kit replaces the OEM main spring with a stiffer rate spring - which essentially overrides any effect from the left hand OEM 'helper' spring, making the contents of the left leg essentially redundant with regard to the actual support and springing of the front end.

With the main spring rate now correct (ie not too soft as many people feel the OEM set-up is), you can dial in the sag correctly using the RR preload cap on that main spring, and set your oil weight [viscosity] and volume to suit your preference - for info. TracTive [who developed the front and rear suspension with Rally-Raid] felt that although still quite rudimentary, the OEM damping control was actually pretty good - certainly once their revised main spring was installed and the oil weight changed to match.


Certainly from my own perspective, I would have to agree - while I never covered many miles on an OEM set-up, the RR LEVEL 1 kit (that is standard travel and ride height) I have on my own bike feels very well composed over all surfaces. It's a pretty simple (and easy to fit) solution.

Hope that clarifies things a bit!

Jenny x


Jx
 
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