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Hi kris,
Yes seems that their decision (replacement of MC with a smaller one) was not the right solution to their problem.

I will go with "red" Brembo sintered Pads, but at the moment I will not change the MC also to avoid problems with BMW 2-years official warranty (I bought bike in October 2018).
Agree that it is better spend money on better brakes than an exhaust: a new magura HC-1 12mm radial pump is still cheaper than an Akrapovic.
However improvement of front fork should come along with improvement of front brakes, not a cheap option on a cheap bike
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Hi kris,
Yes seems that their decision (replacement of MC with a smaller one) was not the right solution to their problem.

I will go with "red" Brembo sintered Pads, but at the moment I will not change the MC also to avoid problems with BMW 2-years official warranty (I bought bike in October 2018).
Agree that it is better spend money on better brakes than an exhaust: a new magura HC-1 12mm radial pump is still cheaper than an Akrapovic.
However improvement of front fork should come along with improvement of front brakes, not a cheap option on a cheap bike
the radial MC is working very differently. i installed Brembo radial on Versys 1000, and it is an entirely different system.

but if in their bike the OEM set up felt too soft, this is very strange to me. it is f hard... and i tested other gs bike - same.

what you need to feel - is your front brake lever hard or soft? do you need much effort to stop the bike? it you need much effort, it means that MC is too big, period - changing brake pads will not make any difference.

as for the front fork, i am ordering Hyperpro springs, which are not that expensive.
 

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I find the factory front brakes pretty average with the lever very long and soft. Changing to adjustable levers helped with the travel but not so much the softness.

The pads feel like they have (compared to my cars, car 1 = carbone Lorraine rc6 pads, car 2 = Hawk HPS plus pads) a very low initial bite/co-effecient of friction and this will play into the woodeness of the feeling through the lever. The sintered vs organic doesn't really matter in this aspect, one of the original reasons for sintered was they didn't have the same gassing problems as organic compound pads and handles heat / weather better.

I've was tempted to give the whole system a full flush again as I thought there was air in the line when I bought the bike. That's how soft the factory lever felt to me.

I'd be interested in the factory pads co-effecient of frictions.

What Kris is talking about is:
images-13_1547125521548.jpeg

What he's done by reducing the master is effectively as per the image above increase the force behind the piston at the caliper, but due to the larger volume of fluid to get piston to move you need to increase the travel of the masters piston (where the foot is).

This is why although it's easy to brake you need to pull the lever more. I already find the brakes too soft got my liking and brake feel is a personal thing - any air or water in the system and its gonna be awful.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I find the factory front brakes pretty average with the lever very long and soft. Changing to adjustable levers helped with the travel but not so much the softness.

The pads feel like they have (compared to my cars, car 1 = carbone Lorraine rc6 pads, car 2 = Hawk HPS plus pads) a very low initial bite/co-effecient of friction and this will play into the woodeness of the feeling through the lever. The sintered vs organic doesn't really matter in this aspect, one of the original reasons for sintered was they didn't have the same gassing problems as organic compound pads and handles heat / weather better.

I've was tempted to give the whole system a full flush again as I thought there was air in the line when I bought the bike. That's how soft the factory lever felt to me.

I'd be interested in the factory pads co-effecient of frictions.

What Kris is talking about is:
View attachment 12210



What he's done by reducing the master is effectively as per the image above increase the force behind the piston at the caliper, but due to the larger volume of fluid to get piston to move you need to increase the travel of the masters piston (where the foot is).

This is why although it's easy to brake you need to pull the lever more. I already find the brakes too soft got my liking and brake feel is a personal thing - any air or water in the system and its gonna be awful.

I don't know about your bike, but oem brakes were very hard-wooden in my bike, and so were in the bikes i tested in the showroom. now, my brakes are superb. the lever travels a bit more, but it engages immediately, effortlessly and powerfully while giving good modulation. 12mm MC could be perhaps a better option, but I love my 11mm set-up. I do have adjustable brake lever, and it works good in the lowest position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
just for the sake of scientific experiment, I fitted 12.7MC from honda to gs, and it was a bit better than oem but still too hard/wooden. So I reverted back to 11mm MC. I still think that 12mm would be optimal; i just need to source it out from someplace as it is not common...
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Ok, so I installed 12mm Maguara Radial Master Cylinder in 2 bikes, Vulcan S and CRF 250L. they have very similar specifications to gs 310 (mc/calliper ratio). My god, what a difference! Riding on the OEM MC, which is by the way a very poor quality, is masochistic. It is way too hard, and unsafe. I payed for the Maguara MC like 220 usd. A worthy investment that transformed my bikes. I still need to wait to install it on GS (as I am now in different country), but I have enough experience to know what will be the result - it is like a difference between riding a bike with shitty brakes and great brakes.
 

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Really cheap un US, while in Europe is very expensive Magura HC1 radial 12mm Master cylinder costs about 310€ (about 350 US $). Too expansive to consider replacement
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Really cheap un US, while in Europe is very expensive Magura HC1 radial 12mm Master cylinder costs about 310€ (about 350 US $). Too expansive to consider replacement
I think I payed like 220usd
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Glad to hear that changing the pads made a bit difference. I thought that they would.
still it is the MC that can make real difference. different pads, just alleviate the problem.
 

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For fun I tried the other day and found I can stop the bike effectively using only the front brake and using only one finger to squeeze the lever. I must say the stock front brake is just outstanding, straight from the factory.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 · (Edited)
For fun I tried the other day and found I can stop the bike effectively using only the front brake and using only one finger to squeeze the lever. I must say the stock front brake is just outstanding, straight from the factory.
Try to do this in emergency stop! The stock MC is way too hard. I even have done calculations. There is a math formula for the MC/calliper's pistons ratio. To give you an example, my Versys 1000 has two callipers with 8 pistons and it has 14mm MC. the gs has 4 tiny pistons with 13mm MC. the ratio is just plain wrong, causing the brakes to be wooden. yes, you can stop the bike, but there is more to braking than just stopping the bike, modulation, force required, etc..etc...


the thing is that when people do not have comparison, they get too easily content with what they've got. I had the same conversation on other forums. people trust the oem set up too much, even if their brakes are terrible.

if you had tried 12mm MC, you would see that it is a difference like day and night. Also the Indian company that make these master cylinders is known for being total crap. I live part time in India, so I know. Get Magura, radial MC, for 220USD and this will be the best investment you have ever made. but it is your bike, so if you are really so 'happy' with this set up, no need to change obviously.
 

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Has anyone noticed and found a solution for the front brake lever, having a lot of travel / excess movement...before the front brakes actually start grabbing?.. I have several motorcycles.. and I have almost instant front pad actuation.. versus the factory setup on my 2018 G310R... I also tried aftermarket levers.. not much luck... It's like the pushrod on the master cylinder has to go in significantly more... in order to start stopping the bike. Is there an adjustment or is there someone else that came up with something? Thanks for any advice.
 

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Real world comparison tests of pads are hard to find, but a few years back Roadracing World did a machine test on pads.
They found that Sintered pads like ECB HH or Brembo HH generally work better than organic pads when you need them most.
Organic pads start off OK when cold or slightly slightly warm but fade off as they warm up, whereas just at the point where organic start to tail off Sintered start to come alive and end up with 30/40% more stopping power.
 
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