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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
If indeed it’s a heat issue, then short trips would keep the heat down. Mu idea was to monitor heat as well but my thermometer got chewed up by the dog. I know I am hoping to haul my little jump start unit with me.
 

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If indeed it’s a heat issue, then short trips would keep the heat down. Mu idea was to monitor heat as well but my thermometer got chewed up by the dog. I know I am hoping to haul my little jump start unit with me.
lol.. his revenge for you for spending time and money on your bike and not treats for him 😆

I’m also cautious about what type battery charger I use during winter, a smart charger will be much kinder to your battery..
 

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I think TGuy's on to something. His graph is consistent with what my dealer told me when discussing my 2017 S1000RR. My RR's charging system catastrophically failed in Fall 2021. I first thought the five year old battery was the problem and decided to upgrade to a Shorai Lithium. When the RR died on my next ride despite the new Shorai, I took it to my dealer and he determined that the RR's charging system had failed. $2100 fixed that with a new alternator and regulator (Ouch!). Fast forward through 18 months of no-problem rides and two weeks ago, my RR electrically died at a stop light. I was four miles from the dealer. They brought a replacement battery. I asked them to charge and test the Shorai and let me know what they found; it charged up and tested as good. Thinking my RR's new charging system was already failing, I tested that and found that it measured normal ignition-on (~12.3v) and while-running (~14v), but, like TGuy's graph, it quickly dropped off when I left it running, despite revving it into higher RPMs. My dealer confirmed this was normal, the regulator was seeing both the charging system output and the battery's charge state and it was regulating the charging system output down because neither the bike nor the battery needed more.

So, why did my still-under-warranty-Shorai leave me stranded? My dealer told me that BMW charging systems sometimes didn't do well with Shorai batteries (something about fast charging vs slow charging). He said, they had seen this incompatibility before and when they switched the bike back to the battery that the charging system had been originally designed for, everything worked.

So, what does this mean for our 3GS's? In my case, I just completed a 7,101 mile trip from North Carolina to Missouri to Nova Scotia and back to North Carolina; this included about 60% of the NEBDR and more off-road in the interior of Cape Breton. With ignition-on, I get 13.2v; running, I get ~14.8v at first, but it goes to 15.0v when I rev the engine. I let it run for a while thinking it would drop off; it didn't. I suspect, like TGuy's graph, it would have dropped off at some point if I took it for a ride. Too rainy today. More to follow. Given that TGuy's 3GS has been fine for three years despite the 14.8v spikes in his graph and given that my 3GS is fine with a 7,101 mile trip and 14.8v/15v readings, it appears that the 3GS's charging system and battery are designed for this.

Yes, some people have had failures, but remember, we're not hearing from the vast majority of folks who have not had failures. I posted this elsewhere on this site, but it applies here too...
"Since its market launch, BMW has sold over 100,000 units of the G 310 series motorcycles (including the G 310 GS ADV) across 120 countries."  (2022 BMW G 310 R: Costs, Facts, And Figures) Why is this important? Consider how many posters have posted about problems (actual problems, not quirks) on this and other 310 related sites. I'd estimate it to be in the hundreds, but not the thousands. If that is a reasonable estimate, then the problem rate for the 310 series is less than ~1%.

So, my plan is to check my charging readings occasionally, but otherwise, I'm just going to ride the heck out of my 3GS.
 

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I think TGuy's on to something. His graph is consistent with what my dealer told me when discussing my 2017 S1000RR. My RR's charging system catastrophically failed in Fall 2021. I first thought the five year old battery was the problem and decided to upgrade to a Shorai Lithium. When the RR died on my next ride despite the new Shorai, I took it to my dealer and he determined that the RR's charging system had failed. $2100 fixed that with a new alternator and regulator (Ouch!). Fast forward through 18 months of no-problem rides and two weeks ago, my RR electrically died at a stop light. I was four miles from the dealer. They brought a replacement battery. I asked them to charge and test the Shorai and let me know what they found; it charged up and tested as good. Thinking my RR's new charging system was already failing, I tested that and found that it measured normal ignition-on (~12.3v) and while-running (~14v), but, like TGuy's graph, it quickly dropped off when I left it running, despite revving it into higher RPMs. My dealer confirmed this was normal, the regulator was seeing both the charging system output and the battery's charge state and it was regulating the charging system output down because neither the bike nor the battery needed more.

So, why did my still-under-warranty-Shorai leave me stranded? My dealer told me that BMW charging systems sometimes didn't do well with Shorai batteries (something about fast charging vs slow charging). He said, they had seen this incompatibility before and when they switched the bike back to the battery that the charging system had been originally designed for, everything worked.

So, what does this mean for our 3GS's? In my case, I just completed a 7,101 mile trip from North Carolina to Missouri to Nova Scotia and back to North Carolina; this included about 60% of the NEBDR and more off-road in the interior of Cape Breton. With ignition-on, I get 13.2v; running, I get ~14.8v at first, but it goes to 15.0v when I rev the engine. I let it run for a while thinking it would drop off; it didn't. I suspect, like TGuy's graph, it would have dropped off at some point if I took it for a ride. Too rainy today. More to follow. Given that TGuy's 3GS has been fine for three years despite the 14.8v spikes in his graph and given that my 3GS is fine with a 7,101 mile trip and 14.8v/15v readings, it appears that the 3GS's charging system and battery are designed for this.

Yes, some people have had failures, but remember, we're not hearing from the vast majority of folks who have not had failures. I posted this elsewhere on this site, but it applies here too...
"Since its market launch, BMW has sold over 100,000 units of the G 310 series motorcycles (including the G 310 GS ADV) across 120 countries."  (2022 BMW G 310 R: Costs, Facts, And Figures) Why is this important? Consider how many posters have posted about problems (actual problems, not quirks) on this and other 310 related sites. I'd estimate it to be in the hundreds, but not the thousands. If that is a reasonable estimate, then the problem rate for the 310 series is less than ~1%.

So, my plan is to check my charging readings occasionally, but otherwise, I'm just going to ride the heck out of my 3GS.
Not wanting to argue your theory, I have to point out your understanding of my graph is wrong.
The two high peaks are when I’m riding the bike, the battery being charged, the steady lower part of the graph is battery condition when the bike is turned off, ie in my garage. The duration of the graph is 5 days. The downward spike is when I went to the garage and adjusted the clock which tends to run slow. To alter the clock ignition has to be on, which means lights are on while I’m fiddling about with the clock settings and battery power drops 😀

Ps. I agree with you, I do think forums tend to highlight problems that are maybe rarer than what they seem. Saying that, the forums are a good source of information too..
 

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Not wanting to argue your theory, I have to point out your understanding of my graph is wrong.
The two high peaks are when I’m riding the bike, the battery being charged, the steady lower part of the graph is battery condition when the bike is turned off, ie in my garage. The duration of the graph is 5 days. The downward spike is when I went to the garage and adjusted the clock which tends to run slow. To alter the clock ignition has to be on, which means lights are on while I’m fiddling about with the clock settings and battery power drops 😀
You're right; I totally misread that aspect of your graph. Thanks for correcting me. So, while running, your bike has a consistent high voltage just as my bike does. I expected my 3GS voltage to drop back down as occured when I did the same test with my RR, but something else is going on; the two bikes' charging systems must differ in some critical way. We need more folks to chime in so we can confirm or refute that this is the norm for 310s, i.e. that they are all continuously producing high voltage (~14.8v) while running.
 

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You're right; I totally misread that aspect of your graph. Thanks for correcting me. So, while running, your bike has a consistent high voltage just as my bike does. I expected my 3GS voltage to drop back down as occured when I did the same test with my RR, but something else is going on; the two bikes' charging systems must differ in some critical way. We need more folks to chime in so we can confirm or refute that this is the norm for 310s, i.e. that they are all continuously producing high voltage (~14.8v) while running.
The voltmeter I am using has a battery test, it tests the charging voltage at idle and then at high revs, the charge rate is almost identical.. Take a look at the photo's I posted in another thread..
Voltmeter Installation
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Conventional wisdom and experince would lean to a 14.4 charging voltage with a resting of 12.2 or so As optimal. But I’ve seen charts showing 12.9 being the max allowable. If it were a serious problem there would be a recall Or more likely a “policy”. Like the water pumps, not a nearly as frequent as it seems on a forum. Irrepective being able to keep an eye on that pesky bat ray a fine idea, the app sounds better than the one I had to cut up my bike to install.
Mine was charging at 15+ after warranty replaced it’s less, pretty much 14.9 running. Optimal for a lithium the problem with them in the Airheads was lack of charging. For now I’m with Jerry, ride, enjoy and observe. Well I‘ll admit I’ll start carrying my little jumper pack……
 

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Like @JerryG, I think it's best to ride more and worry less when it comes to G310's. My 8,000 miles have seen very minor issues, to be sure. Love the bike and would buy it again, no questions.

I will keep a patient side eye on the RR unit's affect on batteries. Not overly concerned. Just still scratching my chin a bit on why the RR unit does not test to the voltage range the Apache shop manual calls for.
 

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The voltmeter I am using has a battery test, it tests the charging voltage at idle and then at high revs, the charge rate is almost identical.. Take a look at the photo's I posted in another thread..
Voltmeter Installation
My phone is doing so much already, I wasn't sure I wanted it also doing voltage monitoring, but the level of detail and monitoring that the Intact Batt Guard is giving you has convinced me.

Well, that didn't quite work out. It seems this is being sold under many different names. Intact Batt Guard is only in Europe. Wunderlich American has a version labeled as JMP Battery-Monitor II for $50. Poking around, I found an Amazon (free-returns if I don't like it) version labeled Battery Monitor BM2 for $25 at


However, there is one review (pasted next down) on this Amazon listing causing me to rethink this:

Question: Can you leave this attached to your batteries at all time?
Answer: Yes, you can but it does drain the battery much faster than they advertise. I've had mine attached for less than a week and it has already drained 4% of my battery and is the ONLY thing connected.
By Andy in NOLA on July 30, 2022

TGuy: Have you noticed any drain? I'm not sure you would unless you used the app itself to check before and after a period of time and nothing else was connected to the battery. For that matter, 4% battery drain for a battery hooked up to a modern motorcycle for a week doesn't seem unusual to me. Thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Even the voltmeters have a draw even when off. Milliamperes I’d think at periods of parking, unplug the fuse/power.
 

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I will keep a patient side eye on the RR unit's affect on batteries. Not overly concerned. Just still scratching my chin a bit on why the RR unit does not test to the voltage range the Apache shop manual calls for.
If you mean my RR, it's a BMW S1000RR, not a Apache 310 RR. But your point is valid either way. I'll be using my S1RR for my club's weekly ride this Wednesday and I'll have a volt meter installed temporarily on the triple tree and a backup battery in my tail bag.

As ARBOLMANO's bumper sticker reads, ”Trust but Verify”. Speaking of whom...

Even the voltmeters have a draw even when off. Milliamperes I’d think at periods of parking, unplug the fuse/power.
Or use a battery tender.
 

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My phone is doing so much already, I wasn't sure I wanted it also doing voltage monitoring, but the level of detail and monitoring that the Intact Batt Guard is giving you has convinced me.

Well, that didn't quite work out. It seems this is being sold under many different names. Intact Batt Guard is only in Europe. Wunderlich American has a version labeled as JMP Battery-Monitor II for $50. Poking around, I found an Amazon (free-returns if I don't like it) version labeled Battery Monitor BM2 for $25 at


However, there is one review (pasted next down) on this Amazon listing causing me to rethink this:

Question: Can you leave this attached to your batteries at all time?
Answer: Yes, you can but it does drain the battery much faster than they advertise. I've had mine attached for less than a week and it has already drained 4% of my battery and is the ONLY thing connected.
By Andy in NOLA on July 30, 2022

TGuy: Have you noticed any drain? I'm not sure you would unless you used the app itself to check before and after a period of time and nothing else was connected to the battery. For that matter, 4% battery drain for a battery hooked up to a modern motorcycle doesn't seem unusual to me. Thoughts?
My voltmeter is the Battery Monitor BM2, to be fair it's only been fitted 6 days so I haven't had chance to give it a fair test. There certainly is a drop off of power but up to now it only seems minimal, on the graph in four days it drops from 12.68v to 12.64v, I obviously can't compare it to before it was fitted..
Also in the comment above it says they say it's the only thing fitted, that's not quite true, the clock is also minimally draining power.
I've not had enough time to tell if it's a problem or not, especially as at this time of year I try and ride my bike a couple of times a week, so it gets charged back up again on each outing.

The reason I wanted the voltmeter was so I could set the low battery alarm to let me know when the battery needs charging, especially in the winter months. I do have a battery tender for winter but prefer not to have it on charge all the time, just when needed. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Jerry’s so smart. Just another thing us in California don’t think about. But a good battery tender is on my list that is a waay better solution than pulling a fuse
 

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Jerry’s so smart. Just another thing us in California don’t think about. But a good battery tender is on my list that is a waay better solution than pulling a fuse
Keep it simple when you do...something like this...

 

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We need more folks to chime in so we can confirm or refute that this is the norm for 310s, i.e. that they are all continuously producing high voltage (~14.8v) while running.
I have been following this “high” voltage discussion for a bit but letting all you, who know way more about it than me, figure it out. I took notice because I consistently see what you’re observing and wanted to have something to bring to the dealer if needed. But I am seeing ~15v while running and/or riding (well maybe 14.8 running 15 riding). So for a data point I confirm that “high” voltage. 2019 GS with usb/voltmeter installed next to screen. And I have used a battery tender since new.
 

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RR, meaning regulator/rectifier.

Apache, meaning the TVS version of the 310, that looks like it shares the same regulator/rectifier. The Apache shop manual specs 14.1v to 14.6v as the range the RR unit should put out in all conditions.
I sure missed that intended meaning. Interesting; is the Apache manual downloadable somewhere?
 
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