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Discussion Starter #1
In Jan 2019 I had my 2016 Honda CRF250L stolen after spending £1K on upgrades to get it exactly how I wanted. Rather than go through all that again I decided to go for the extra power and lower seat height of the G310GS. On taking delivery in September 2019 the clutch judder was bad which I reported to the dealer, they said it was probably just a bedding in issue and to run it until the first service at 600 miles and it has improved but is still evident. As the wonderful British weather got cooler I also had the cold start issue and was directed to the owners manual which states that you need to hold in the clutch and open the throttle a little when starting, it started eventually but certainly not easily. I booked the service at around 550 miles to be told that the bike needed a new cush drive as it had excessive play and that the front brake calliper needed replacing under a recall. By this time the clutch judder had improved but was still there which I asked them to investigate. Here are the outcomes: -

  • The clutch judder was noted on the service notes and I was asked to run it to 1000 miles to see if it would go completely. I was told that if it was still there after 1000 miles they would investigate but if no fault was found the cost of the investigation would be down to me.
  • The front brake which I never had a problem with now has longer travel and is spongy in operation.
  • The cush drive has been replaced but I never found an issue anyway.
  • The cold start issue they claim is affected by the aftermarket Dominator exhaust I have fitted as this changes the back pressure and they would not investigate and reflash the ECU until I put the original exhaust back on,
In the last few years I have also bought a new Yamaha MT09-SP & KTM Duke 390 (now sold) without a single issue. My BMW experience has been dire and the after care from Dick Lovett BMW Mottorad, Bristol UK has been appalling. The 310 is made by TVS in India of which they also make their own version the TVS Apache 310 RR which retails for £2300! It seems that BMW have gone down the same road as Rover (just before they went bust) with the City Rover in buying a sub standard Indian made product, putting their badge on it and charging more than double the price. A sure way of damaging your brand and alienating customers. In my early days I had a secondhand Yamaha YB100 2 Stroke and that was far more reliable than the BMW.

The cold start issue I have managed to solve by upgrading the battery to one with a higher CCA rating for £32 and running the bike on super unleaded which has a higher octane lower ethanol content. I intend to do some green laneing & light touring with the bike once the awful Covid-19 situation is under control but I will never buy BMW again. The BMW product and after care experience is grossly over rated.
 

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Hi Ken , I too have been underwhelmed by the bmw experience.
Whenever I have to visit the bmw dealer they look down their nose's , because I didnt buy a proper bmw.!
The cold start issue as we all know has nothing at all to do with your exhaust.
BMW [certainly in the UK] seem to have just let the dealer try and sort these problems out.
btw this winter I changed to a lighter grade oil which made an improvement to the terrible cold start issue.
Most of the time the bike is just what I need.
Have fun on the green lanes [before they too disappear]
 

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Discussion Starter #3
With the benefit of hindsight I should have taken the bike back straight away with the clutch issue rather than working with the dealership to see if it will settle down with use. However under Sale of Goods Act, the fault is deemed to be there from supply so it is their responsibility to sort it out. If they resist after 1000 miles I will make a claim on my legal protection policy as part of my Home Insurance but it shouldn't have to come to that.

The clue on the battery came when I went for a winter ride and the Oxford Advanced Heated Grips I fitted kept cutting out, so I had cold hands on the ride. On getting home and reading the Oxford manual, the grips cut off if they are not receiving enough power from the battery so that the battery is protected. This setting can be overridden but I didn't know that at the time on the ride. The battery was fully charged so it led me to investigate whether the battery was under specified for colder climates which I believe it is. I bought the replacement battery from www.tanya.co.uk where for the same dimensions I went from a BMW battery that was 8aH with 140CCA to one that is 9aH with 165CCA. At the same time the BMW dealership suggested Super Unleaded and the combination of the 2 has solved the problem. I am yet to try the more powerful battery with normal unleaded but will once the current tank of fuel has been used up. My belief is that the manufacturer, TVS in India who pretty much only sell in Asia specified the battery for that market, BMW did not upgrade it and now come up with all sorts of other things to try rather than pay for a recall and replace the batteries to a specification they should have supplied in the first place. Yet again another example of BMW damaging their brand.

With regards to the Dominator HP1 exhaust I bought mine for £189 through Amazon and although louder it certainly makes a difference to pick up & acceleration.
 

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There have been some teething issues with this bike, to be sure. Most of us in colder climates regularly experience the cold start problem. With my bike, putting it in neutral while holding in the clutch and rolling onto the throttle gets her started on the first try 95% of the time. I have a bit of clutch squeal when I'm aggressively accelerating from a dead stop, and this is a known problem with many of us as well. My front brake is quite soft and at times feels too spongy in traffic.

For the money, I'm satisfied with the little BMW. It's taken me though 15 countries without breaking down thus far, and is my favorite motorcycle of the 3 I've owned. With that said, when it's time to buy another I'll likely go Japanese.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
In the 21st Century a brand like BMW should have its pre production testing and quality control sorted much better than this. Its dealers should also have a much better customer focused attitude to people that have spent their hard earned cash on the products they are selling. There is no excuse when Japanese and other European brands do not have the same issues and as all the threads/topics show, it not just one thing but a whole host of issues with the G310 range.

The main issue seems to be that the manufacturer TVS of India are just not up to scratch but rather than rectifying this with their products, BMW are quite happy to put their badge on the bike, charge more than double the price and let the customer suffer all the issues. This method harks back to the bad old days of British Leyland in the 1970's where they just threw the cars together, let the dealers sort out all the problems and the customer suffer all the aggravation. Bad enough back then but in the 21st century totally unacceptable and only consumer influence through forums such as this which will eventually hit sales will get them to do anything about it.

The G310 GS is a wonderful piece of design but has been so poorly executed and produced that it leaves a bitter taste. I for one will never buy another BMW motorcycle and reading many of the posts on this forum I am not alone.
 

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Different bike manufacturers have different issues. The bike was designed by BMW, built on a BMW production line using TVS labor.

There are some issues with the bikes, but if you have a good dealer, these issues are relatively minor. A good dealer really makes all the difference.

Given the cost of the bike, the 3 year warranty, and the support that I have received, I wouldn't hesitate buying another 310.
 

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As a manufacturing engineer with experience at two very well known companies, I can honestly say I've never seen a new product launch that was perfect. Regardless of how many hours design puts into the test machine, unforeseen issues will arise in the field. Sometimes suppliers have trouble producing new parts to specification. And no matter how well the assembly engineers plan the line, mistakes will be made and countermeasures will need to be implemented. I've had issues with my Japanese bikes too, so they certainly aren't immune. I think BMW is offering a great motorcycle for the price point. It seems the engineers are updating parts based on field failures and most dealers are doing a good job with warranty work. We are early adopters of a new product and should expect some teething issues. If engines start exploding immediately after the warranty period ends, I'll obviously have a different opinion. 😆
 

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About the seat height.... why didn't they put the low seat on as standard. Really, the seat height should not have been more than 31" as it is a "Starter" bike and we all don't have long legs. Of course I don't think someone should have to pay for a taller seat either.

In order to mount any of my bikes, the kick stand must be down or the slightest loss of balance on my toes will result in the bike going down. I can usually break the fall so there is no damage, but then you need to pick up the bike, another ordeal.

To make matters worse, just putting the kickstand UP is an ordeal. It must lengthen by 1-2" on the down swing so it hits the road unless the bike is tilted far enough to the right. If I do that, I have to try and kick back with the heel of my boot hard enough to move the kickstand which is difficult as I can only reach about halfway down thus requiring much more force. It must look like a comedy skit to observers. The only way around it is to be next to a curb or to reach out against a wall, pole, or car so I can tilt the bike. Obviously, I can never park the bike on a surface that slants down to the right.

At least with the old centerstand you could just rock the bike to retract the stand. I might just have to get a centerstand.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm afraid I cannot agree that the multitude of problems with the 310 are teething issues. If we take just one of the issues that of cold starting, it's pretty fundamental to the operation of any machine that it starts when required. I have never had an issue starting my Yamaha or KTM whatever the outside temperature. It is well known that motor manufacturers when developing and testing a product take them to Death Valley in California for extreme heat and Scandinavia for extreme cold.

For BMW to come up with the following which we have all heard: -
  • Pull in the clutch
  • Open the throttle slightly
  • Use lighter engine oil
  • Run on Super Unleaded or higher Octane Fuel
  • Reflash the ECU (assuming you haven't changed the exhaust)
All of this is BS trying to get round the problem of an underdeveloped product rather than fix the problem and recall all the bikes sold which is what they should do. Although BMW may have designed the bike, much of the architecture has come from TVS which uses the same engine in their Apache RR bike. I have heard today that TVS have purchased the remnants of Norton so one can only assume that this will be another brand to steer clear of in future.

As customers of the BMW brand we all deserve much better.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
An update on the issues. The dealer has now reopened after Covid lockdown. I gave them a few days before sending my email of complaint which I sent to the sales person who forwarded it on. I had no response after 10 days so asked for the name of the dealer principal so that I could commence legal proceedings and guess what, I got a response. They rebled the front brake which is fine now so clearly it was handed back to me with air in it after the front calliper change under warranty.

Regarding the clutch judder they made available the demonstrator so that I could compare it to an identical bike. I immediately noticed a difference and was confident they would confirm this. One of their technicians then tried the 2 bikes back to bike and said they were identical. I did not accept this so asked for a second opinion, another technician tried both bikes and said they were identical even though you could visibly see my bike judder when the clutch is released from standstill. Also, it was stated on the first service notes that the clutch judder was present but now it seems had magically disappeared much like Trump talking about Covid-19. They then stated as they could not find a fault the cost of investigation would be down to me so unless the clutch fails completely I am stuck with it.

I am done with BMW for their sub standard products and arrogant/unhelpful dealer network. I will keep the bike for the remainder of the 3 year warranty to cover any failures then get rid of it and go back to Japanese.
 

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I've read a lot as research into buying (or possibly not) in the last few days. Could this judder be the cush rubbers? Does the sprocket move a lot relative to the wheel?

Cush rubbers can be fixed with slices of inner tube like the Tenere fraternity use.

Andy
 

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An update on the issues. The dealer has now reopened after Covid lockdown. I gave them a few days before sending my email of complaint which I sent to the sales person who forwarded it on. I had no response after 10 days so asked for the name of the dealer principal so that I could commence legal proceedings and guess what, I got a response. They rebled the front brake which is fine now so clearly it was handed back to me with air in it after the front calliper change under warranty.

Regarding the clutch judder they made available the demonstrator so that I could compare it to an identical bike. I immediately noticed a difference and was confident they would confirm this. One of their technicians then tried the 2 bikes back to bike and said they were identical. I did not accept this so asked for a second opinion, another technician tried both bikes and said they were identical even though you could visibly see my bike judder when the clutch is released from standstill. Also, it was stated on the first service notes that the clutch judder was present but now it seems had magically disappeared much like Trump talking about Covid-19. They then stated as they could not find a fault the cost of investigation would be down to me so unless the clutch fails completely I am stuck with it.

I am done with BMW for their sub standard products and arrogant/unhelpful dealer network. I will keep the bike for the remainder of the 3 year warranty to cover any failures then get rid of it and go back to Japanese.
That's no good!
A good dealer makes a world of difference, is there any chance you can take it to a different dealer?
 

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Kalamity - I think I have the same clutch issue as you, my dealership told me it was because of the aftermarket adjustable levers. The tech they had to ride my bike said the levers also caused him to stall a lot and they would only look at the clutch at my expense unless a warrantable issue was found.

I'm just working on the fact it's probably the same cost to replace the clutch as to inspect it, so i'll wait until it's dead and then do it - but i'm hop[ing to get a larger bike in the next 6months so it will be someone else's issue (i'll disclose it)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Andy M - the cush rubbers have already been replaced under warranty at 450 miles
Porth - Dick Lovett are literally less than 1 mile away so the next dealer is 30-40 miles away
DRTDVL - I have the standard levers on my bike so it's not that.

In my experience it's just a product and dealer network best avoided.
 

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Kalamity, yeah I didn't believe that they would be the issue and you can get BMW factory optioned adjustable leavers. It was just their excuse.

The biggest issue with the dealerships are they aren't owned directly by BMW, anything they want to claim back from BMW actually needs to the local importer and then to BMW, which makes the process (from what I understand) a pain in the *** at times. Any time spent investigating isn't guaranteed to be refunded, some dealerships will wear the inspection cost while others don't - same with dealerships charging to scan faults or reset service lights, some charge others don't.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
That would explain the reluctance by the dealer to take the clutch apart to investigate. The fact that BMW have structured their dealer network that way means that customer service suffers in order to save BMW as much money as possible instead of supporting their products. Seems like an Accountants decision to me and as they say "Accountants know the cost of everything and the value of nothing".

So they have saved some repair costs today, but the fact that they will lose sales and aftermarket revenue in the future doesn't seem to bother them.
 

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Kalamity, that ownership model is pretty much how most dealerships (car, truck, motorcycle, etc...) work. It can be very easy for dealers to burn a lot of time (money) inspecting claims by customers, end of the day they are a business - some clients are easy to deal with others are a pain, its' very interesting if you have ever worked in hospitality its amazing some of the expectations, i've heard stories from friends that work in the automotive industry that would shock you like, someone claiming the paint warranty after they had a car accident and some of the paint was damaged, the customer wanted them to pay for a re-spray.

Clutches can also be an interesting thing as it's one of those items which someone can destroy in a very short time by bad user operation (clutch dumps, lots of slippages, etc...).
 

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Discussion Starter #18
OK time to update on the clutch issue. After the supplying dealership stated there was no problem with the clutch despite me reporting it from new and it being recorded on the documentation at the first service, I drove 30 miles to the next nearest BMW dealership who confirmed that there was a clutch judder. Armed with this information I went back to the supplying dealer and also stated the legal position under the Sale of Goods Act here in the UK. The dealer agreed to take the bike in to inspect the clutch and it is currently with them while I await the verdict. I will keep you posted.
 

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With the benefit of hindsight I should have taken the bike back straight away with the clutch issue rather than working with the dealership to see if it will settle down with use. However under Sale of Goods Act, the fault is deemed to be there from supply so it is their responsibility to sort it out. If they resist after 1000 miles I will make a claim on my legal protection policy as part of my Home Insurance but it shouldn't have to come to that.

The clue on the battery came when I went for a winter ride and the Oxford Advanced Heated Grips I fitted kept cutting out, so I had cold hands on the ride. On getting home and reading the Oxford manual, the grips cut off if they are not receiving enough power from the battery so that the battery is protected. This setting can be overridden but I didn't know that at the time on the ride. The battery was fully charged so it led me to investigate whether the battery was under specified for colder climates which I believe it is. I bought the replacement battery from www.tanya.co.uk where for the same dimensions I went from a BMW battery that was 8aH with 140CCA to one that is 9aH with 165CCA. At the same time the BMW dealership suggested Super Unleaded and the combination of the 2 has solved the problem. I am yet to try the more powerful battery with normal unleaded but will once the current tank of fuel has been used up. My belief is that the manufacturer, TVS in India who pretty much only sell in Asia specified the battery for that market, BMW did not upgrade it and now come up with all sorts of other things to try rather than pay for a recall and replace the batteries to a specification they should have supplied in the first place. Yet again another example of BMW damaging their brand.

With regards to the Dominator HP1 exhaust I bought mine for £189 through Amazon and although louder it certainly makes a difference to pick up & acceleration.
Hi Ken, may I trouble you for the manufacturer and model replacement battery you purchased please/thank you
 
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