BMW Motorrad presents the BMW Concept F 450 GS.
Concept of an accessible and off-road capable BMW GS for the 48 hp mid-range class.
BMW Announced Concept F450GS Near-Production-Ready 386-lbs
JerryG
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In the immortal words of Isaac Asimov's The Last Question:
"There is insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
When I asked Google's AI, "Where will the bmw f 450 gs be produced?", the AI answers...
However, the Google AI's only citation for the "manufactured in India by TVS" claim is an Indian YouTube video that to me appears to be speculation:
I think economics will dominate this question.
P.S. I think the KTM 2025 KTM 390 Adventure R is forcing BMW to accelerate the F 450 GS:
"There is insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
- BMW has not said where the F 450 GS will be produced.
- I have not seen anything remotely authoritative on the F 450 GS production location.
- I haven't even seen anything that looks like a credible leak suggesting where the F 450 GS will be produced.
When I asked Google's AI, "Where will the bmw f 450 gs be produced?", the AI answers...
- "The BMW F 450 GS will be manufactured in India by TVS and exported worldwide."
- "BMW Motorrad's other motorcycle production takes place in Berlin, Germany, with the exception of the G310 series and the C400 series."
- "The G310 series is produced in Hosur, Tamil Nadu, India, and the C400 series is produced in Chongqing, China."
However, the Google AI's only citation for the "manufactured in India by TVS" claim is an Indian YouTube video that to me appears to be speculation:
I think economics will dominate this question.
- I do not believe that BMW can price a German built F 450 GS to compete with the newly announced KTM 390 Adventure R.
- Given that, I believe India is more likely than China because leaping production from the G 310 GS to the F 450 GS is easier than leaping production from the C 400 to the F 450 GS.
- Evidence #1: There are reputable reports that TVS is developing a motorcycle with a twin-cylinder engine. Those reports say it's likely a 600-750cc twin engine, but until now, the sources of those reports had no idea that an F 450 GS was in development.
- Evidence #2: The current TVS Apache has a lot of the features that the F 450 GS announcement says the F 450 GS will have.
P.S. I think the KTM 2025 KTM 390 Adventure R is forcing BMW to accelerate the F 450 GS:
- I think BMW did the whole F 450 GS Near-Production-Ready-Concept thing to counter the already-in-production KTM 2025 KTM 390 Adventure R.
- For the same reason, I expect BMW to expedite getting the F 450 GS to dealers as fast as they possible can.
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Quite a conundrum. KTM is having issues with the Euro manufacturing, the Asian production proving to be more reliable oddly enough along with less cost. Modern factories being better equipped for new manufacturing methods like DLC It‘s not been stated yet where the line is going to be drawn on Tariffs. I’d say unlikely to make any sense. And so you pay 60% more for a BMW, would still be a great bike. With China supplying the largest importer on the planet, just going to have get used to paying higher prices on everything.
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That only works if all buyers have lots of extra money; most don't. Instead, most buyers buy a lot fewer things and companies shrink or go bust. Get enough of that, the global economy tanks and everybody loses.
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As much as I'm happy seeing BMW (& everyman & his dog) producing a 450(ish) ADV/Rally/Enduro type bike, none of them will prise my Rally Raid G310GS from my grasp, after a showroom visit.
The Thanksgiving dirt ride I just completed (about 400 miles off road over 4 days) demonstrated to me that 34hp is as much as I can handle off road & if 75 mph(ish) isn’t enough for any tar sections, I should be on my K1200GT & screw the dirt.
The bike is fettled with MoskoMoto panniers, Tractive suspension, has a great riding position now, with a Seat Concepts Tall Comfort seat, Protaper bar risers & Renthal Fat Bars. I got the gearing right for off road, love the Michelin Anakee Wild tyres & setting up the bike correctly for my weight & height has taken time & trouble. The motocamping in the wild was fantastic even in late November. It only has 8K miles on it & should last longer than me!
If I changed bike, I'd have to do it all again at significant cost, with a foreseeable gain of about 13hp that I dont need & little else.
The new breed, CFMoto 450 Ibex, Royal Enfield 450 Himalayan, KTM 390 Adventure R, BMW F450GS, Aprilia Toureg 457, Suzuki DR-Z 4S, Kawasaki KLE500, all look fantastic bikes & difficult to choose between, but my choice will be old faithful G310GS. It's all I need.
Enjoy every mile 2024
The Thanksgiving dirt ride I just completed (about 400 miles off road over 4 days) demonstrated to me that 34hp is as much as I can handle off road & if 75 mph(ish) isn’t enough for any tar sections, I should be on my K1200GT & screw the dirt.
The bike is fettled with MoskoMoto panniers, Tractive suspension, has a great riding position now, with a Seat Concepts Tall Comfort seat, Protaper bar risers & Renthal Fat Bars. I got the gearing right for off road, love the Michelin Anakee Wild tyres & setting up the bike correctly for my weight & height has taken time & trouble. The motocamping in the wild was fantastic even in late November. It only has 8K miles on it & should last longer than me!
If I changed bike, I'd have to do it all again at significant cost, with a foreseeable gain of about 13hp that I dont need & little else.
The new breed, CFMoto 450 Ibex, Royal Enfield 450 Himalayan, KTM 390 Adventure R, BMW F450GS, Aprilia Toureg 457, Suzuki DR-Z 4S, Kawasaki KLE500, all look fantastic bikes & difficult to choose between, but my choice will be old faithful G310GS. It's all I need.
Enjoy every mile 2024
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I understand your thinking and share a lot of it, but my conclusion differs. After 33,498 miles including the TAT coast to coast, the TAT Minnesota Spur, eight BDRs, Death Valley, and Baja California Cabo and back, I've come to think that the G310GS is "just right" except when it comes to riding interstate highways. I generally avoid interstate highways to the maximum extent possible, but sometimes I want or need to get somewhere fast and interstate highways are the fastest way to get me there. The G310GS can certainly do interstate highway travel. I've proven that with thousands of miles riding them. However, I have to admit that riding interstate highways on the G310GS is more problematic than any other motorcycle I've owned and that that is because its 34 HP sometimes makes keeping up with interstate traffic impossible, particularly when there was significant headwinds and/or long uphill grades. When this happens, I have found myself thinking the G310GS' 34 HP was not quite enough. So, why do I think the F450's 48 HP will suffice? My second motorcycle was a brand new 1982 Honda GL500 Silver Wing (bought as a college graduation present to myself). With the GL500's 50 HP pushing 529 lbs, I never had a problem keeping up with interstate traffic. Given this, with the F450GS' 48 HP pushing just 386 lbs, I expect the F450GS will easily keep up with interstate traffic.
My Conclusion: The F450GS' 48 HP is the main reason I'll probably buy a F450GS. If the F450GS didn't have that HP increase over the G310GS or I didn't want or need that HP increase...I'd keep riding my G310GS and be very happy doing so.
Cost Note: The above reasoning and conclusion do not consider cost. This is because I'm at a stage in my life where I can afford to buy and kit out an F450GS. If this wasn't the case...I'd keep riding my G310GS and be very happy doing so.
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I totally agree regarding Interstate riding on a G310GS. It's unpleasant.
I hope the F450GS lives up to your Interstate expectations. I owned a Bonnie with about 48hp when I lived in SoCal & disliked riding them on that as well.
I'd be looking for 70+hp to be comfortable on Interstates. The F series GS Rotax twins would be the bikes I'd be looking at for a bike capable of off road & use on Interstates.
There are often very good ones available, where someone else has already done most of the upgrades as well.
I'll split the duties & the G310GS will do the dirt work while the K1200GT cruises the Interstates. If I need to ride on dirt a long way from home, the G310GS will get there in the back of my son's F150 (with his WR250R).
Good luck with the F450GS when the time comes. They're definitely pretty & will look splendid under showroom lights.
2024
I hope the F450GS lives up to your Interstate expectations. I owned a Bonnie with about 48hp when I lived in SoCal & disliked riding them on that as well.
I'd be looking for 70+hp to be comfortable on Interstates. The F series GS Rotax twins would be the bikes I'd be looking at for a bike capable of off road & use on Interstates.
There are often very good ones available, where someone else has already done most of the upgrades as well.
I'll split the duties & the G310GS will do the dirt work while the K1200GT cruises the Interstates. If I need to ride on dirt a long way from home, the G310GS will get there in the back of my son's F150 (with his WR250R).
Good luck with the F450GS when the time comes. They're definitely pretty & will look splendid under showroom lights.
2024
In the EU the A2 driving licence has an upper limit of 35 KW (47.5 HP), provided that a non-restricted version of the bike does not exceed 70 KW (95 HP). One can reasonably expect the F450GS to reach a top speed of 110 mph (180 km/h), which would make all the difference on the motorway compared to the baby GS. Added torque will also be helpful on small roads to take over other vehicles.
Personally I hold A/A2/A1/AM motorcycle licences nonetheless I still hesitate between 2 options:
The biggest risk where I live (Alpes-Maritimes, France) is theft. And the R1250GS/GSA is to date very popular when it comes to theft (either the complete bike or accessories such as TFT screens or exhausts). A good reason to keep a medium performance bike as daily commuter. A high performance GS definitely needs a real tracker (such as Coyote Secure or Automatrics MTrack) to help recover it before it either broken into pieces or illegally exported.
Personally I hold A/A2/A1/AM motorcycle licences nonetheless I still hesitate between 2 options:
- Alternative A: keep the G310GS (for off-road and city travel) and purchase a new R1250/1300GS or GSA (for long distance travel).
- Alternative B: sell the G310GS and replace it with the F450GS (for all types of travel). Then purchase later the R1250/1300GS or GSA (for long distance travel).
The biggest risk where I live (Alpes-Maritimes, France) is theft. And the R1250GS/GSA is to date very popular when it comes to theft (either the complete bike or accessories such as TFT screens or exhausts). A good reason to keep a medium performance bike as daily commuter. A high performance GS definitely needs a real tracker (such as Coyote Secure or Automatrics MTrack) to help recover it before it either broken into pieces or illegally exported.
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It's a sad day when crime is a major consideration on motorcycle purchase.
It's less of a problem in AZ, where many folks carry & stealing is a dangerous occupation.
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Your point about restricted vs unrestricted has me wondering: In the US, there is no such thing as A1, A2, et al, licensing; you have a motorcycle endorsement or you don't. So, I'm hoping BMWNA brings an non-restricted version of the F450GS to the US. If they don't, the US aftermarket will fix it: There are several US companies that offer ECU flash upgrades that undo OEM restrictions. I've never availed myself of them, but for a more powerful F450GS, I might.
Like your Alt B, after so many miles on my 386 lbs G310GS, my 498 lbs S1000XR feels heavy. In the three years since I bought my G310GS, I haven't ridden the XR outside my local riding area. If the F450GS works for me, I may end up selling the XR and just have the F450GS and the G310GS.
In US cities, the S1000RR is the only BMW bike thieves want. Very little theft of other BMWs. I paid as much to insure my RR as I did my S1000XR and my G310GS combined. I sold the RR after realizing I had only ridden it 720 miles in the 2-1/2 years after I bought my G310GS.
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I didn't realise the S1000RR was so "sought after" in the metropoli.
In the rural area of AZ where my son lives, property is generally "very" secure.
The houses, storage sheds, bikes, cars etc are almost never locked. The vast majority of households know exactly who lives on each property & it's close to impossible to "not be noticed".
Not everyone carries, but sufficient numbers do to make burglary, vehicle theft, or pretty much any type of theft, very hazardous.
The "bad folks" go elsewhere to a place where their profession can be conducted more safely.
It took a while to get used to the situation, but I rather like it now (I don’t carry).
In the rural area of AZ where my son lives, property is generally "very" secure.
The houses, storage sheds, bikes, cars etc are almost never locked. The vast majority of households know exactly who lives on each property & it's close to impossible to "not be noticed".
Not everyone carries, but sufficient numbers do to make burglary, vehicle theft, or pretty much any type of theft, very hazardous.
The "bad folks" go elsewhere to a place where their profession can be conducted more safely.
It took a while to get used to the situation, but I rather like it now (I don’t carry).
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Actually, all race replica bikes.
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That is weird. It has to be assumed they are stolen to order & the market in race replica parts is thriving. The dishonest scum never cease to amaze...
Since 2013 licensing categories have been harmonised within the EU. All member states automatically exchange information (through the RESPER network) about driving licences (issued by, validity, categories, etc). For motorcycles there exists 4 categories: AM (max. 50 cm3 & 28mph / 45 km/h), A1 (125 cm3 & max. 15 HP), A2 (>125cm3 & max. 35KW / 47.5 HP), A (unrestricted).
To get from A2 to A you need to wait 2 years and go through a one day training before the A category is added to your driving licence. Unlike the F750GS, F800GS, F850GS the baby GS does not feature a power limiter to make it "A2 compatible". I would expect the same from the F450GS. The F900GS, F1250GS, F1300GS do not feature a power limiter either because they are native "A" motorcycles intended for experienced riders (exceeding 70KW / 95 HP). That said I've tried both A and A2 versions of the F850GS and the only noticeable difference is a reduced top speed (180 km/h instead of 200 km/h) and slightly less torque.
Thus BMW designs its bikes keeping in mind the huge EU market and its strict road regulations...
To get from A2 to A you need to wait 2 years and go through a one day training before the A category is added to your driving licence. Unlike the F750GS, F800GS, F850GS the baby GS does not feature a power limiter to make it "A2 compatible". I would expect the same from the F450GS. The F900GS, F1250GS, F1300GS do not feature a power limiter either because they are native "A" motorcycles intended for experienced riders (exceeding 70KW / 95 HP). That said I've tried both A and A2 versions of the F850GS and the only noticeable difference is a reduced top speed (180 km/h instead of 200 km/h) and slightly less torque.
Thus BMW designs its bikes keeping in mind the huge EU market and its strict road regulations...
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In the US, many bikes have ECM maps that restrict performance to meet emissions requirements. There is a thriving ECM remapping market to remove these restrictions so street bikes can run without the resulting dead spots and limits.
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Bikes don't get smog tested in my US experience either (CA & AZ) so no one is ever the wiser what may have happened after it left the factory
Land of the Free!
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I thought of another thing I think the F450 GS fixes compared to the G 310 GS: The 310 gas tank and forward 310 foot pegs make standing up difficult when going up hill. The 450 looks like it fixed that, but I won't know for sure until I can stand up on one.
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Jerry I suspect (like me) you enjoy the build almost as much as the riding. My 310 is now also set up perfectly for me. Bars, tall seat, suspension, pregs, etc. But I really wish it had 10 more HP. I also don't ride freeways much but the extra 10 would make those stretches perfect. In the end, my dream bike weighs under 400 lbs and has between 42-55 HP. My first bike was a CB500X (48 HP) and I know that bike was perfect for me except for the extra weight. For me it will be difficult to choose from the new bikes coming out. A lot will depend on what the new BMW actually comes with. But for me, my list will need to include: under 400 lbs, 44+ HP, tubeless tires w. spoked wheels, and excellent suspension. As a bonus cruise control. I think the BMW, KTM390, and the Aprilla will all be very appealing to me but if the Aprilla is set up similarly to the 660, I think that one will win out for me. Then the question is what to do with the 310? One thought I had was to rent a storage locker out west and leave it there. Then fly out 2X a year to ride.
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I don't have a "pregs"; where do I buy that? 😂
Otherwise, we are definitely of like mind though I discount the Aprila option because the nearest dealer is 2.5 hours away one-way. Conveniently, my BMW dealer is just 15 minutes away and he's also a KTM dealer with his showroom a good healthy 50/50 split between the two. Of course, thanks to recent events, I will also consider KTM's corporate health as part of my choice. I know BMW will be around to honor their warranty and provide parts; unfortunately, I can't say that for KTM at this point.
I've thought of positioning the 310 out west. It's a possibility in part because I have a friend with space in Colorado. I suppose it will depend on how much I prefer the 450 over the 310.
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